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garykasparov
Joined: 27 May 2007
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 Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:51 pm Post subject: Should Hagwon Run Round-the-Clock? |
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Should Hagwon Run Round-the-Clock?
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2008/03/117_20687.html
By Bae Ji-sook
Staff Reporter
The Lee Myung-bak administration is trying to free up every corner of the education field. After giving universities power to select student admissions, education authorities are now moving to allow private cram schools or hagwon to run their institutes as late as they want.
Seoul city council said it plans to allow limitless hours for hagwon.
Civic groups, parents and many experts immediately expressed opposition to the move. They said the ``deregulation'' would force students to study all night long and harm their health as well as pose a threat to the public educational system.
Moreover, Seoul's case could serve as a role model for other local councils and the rest of the nation, experts say vowing to stop the moves.
The deregulation move first came about last year, when some council members tried to extend the business hours of hagwon from the current 5 a.m.- 10 p.m. to 11.p.m.
According to Choi Byeong-hwan of the Grand National Party: ``Society is mature enough to handle such liberty. Regulation is worse.''
On Wednesday, the council's educational committee passed a revision bill to abolish limitations on business hours. Since most of the members standing for deregulation are from the GNP, the bill is most likely to pass the general session of the council on March 18.
However, experts denounced it. The Commission on Youth Protection, now a part of the Ministry of Health, Welfare and Family Affairs, previously warned that the extension would cause a lack of sleep, irregular meals that could affect students who are still growing. Also, they said it could infringe on individual rights to pursue happiness.
Kim Ji-hak of civic group School Health said the revision is a violation of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child guaranteeing children's rights to live, survive, grow up, be healthy and take leisure.
Study at Sacrifice of Health
``A survey showed about 40 percent of elementary and middle school students are skipping meals due to tight study schedules,'' he added.
The progressive Korean Teachers & Education Workers' Union said Korean students already lack sleep and the deregulation will make matters worse. ``According to our information, 17-18 year-old students sleep for 5.4 hours a day while those in the United States, Japan and China sleep for 7-8, 6-7 and 7.5 hours a day, respectively,'' the organization spokesman Hyun In-cheol said.
He said many of the institutes in Seoul run all night already, and the revision will just proliferate their ``obnoxious'' actions. ``Do we really have to see children sleep in the classrooms and study at night in hagwon?'' he said. Hyun added that the revision is almost ``violent'' to students and warned that too much liberty could be disastrous.
``I don't think my children will be happy to hear the news. It is great stress for them,'' Park Beom-yee, a spokesman for the Parents for True Education said.
``Also, hagwon will now set a special fee for over-night sessions, Ivy League classes and others. The revision will allow them to rake in money from parents. It will widen the gap among people according to their income.'' he added.
Even the conservative New Right Teachers' Union, who have traditionally been strong supporters of GNP policies and deregulation in the education field, opposed the revision.
``It is nonsense. I say there is a connection between the council members and hagwon owners. Do they care about the students? It is the government who should pursue the happiness of everyone. The bill will worsen the educational environment in the country and students' mental and physical health,'' Oh Seung-bae, the president, said.
The groups all vowed to hold protests and fight the bill.
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nomad-ish
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Location: On the bottom of the food chain
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| these people are CRAZY. that's all i can think of to say |
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garykasparov
Joined: 27 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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If they do run throughout the night, they have to pay per night works. If they don't, therein lies a labor law violation.
6. An employer shall additionally pay fifty percent or more of the ordinary wages for extended work, night work or holiday work.
* Extended work : work provided in excess of eight hours per day or in excess of forty-four hours per week
* Night work : work provided from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. |
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nomad-ish
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Location: On the bottom of the food chain
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| ^ yeah, but besides the potential to screw over FTs even more, there's also the over-worked students to worry about. it is completely and utterly irresponsible for anyone to approve a bill that could have kids up all night at hagwons |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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Just when I thought the stupidity had passed....  |
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Bryan
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: Should Hagwon Run Round-the-Clock? |
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| garykasparov wrote: |
Civic groups, parents and many experts immediately expressed opposition to the move. They said the ``deregulation'' would force students to study all night long and harm their health as well as pose a threat to the public educational system. |
Who are these "experts"--experts in having their heads up their asses?
Deregulation by definition is the opposite of forcing someone to do anything. It means allowing more choice. People who previously could not study at night would be able to study, and nobody would be forced to study at night by the government. The government doesn't put a gun to people's heads and force them to study at late-night hagwons. |
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Bryan
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| nomad-ish wrote: |
| ^ yeah, but besides the potential to screw over FTs even more, there's also the over-worked students to worry about. it is completely and utterly irresponsible for anyone to approve a bill that could have kids up all night at hagwons |
The bill has nothing to do with forcing people to overstudy. That is an issue of parenting.
In America, the government allows people to have an unlimited number of jobs. You can work 4 jobs a day if you can fit them all in. Is it therefore George Bush's fault that someone chooses to be up all night working?
In Korea, you can legally buy as much Coca-Cola as you want. You have the freedom to buy three cases every day. The government does not set the amount of Coca-Cola you are allowed to drink. Is it then the government's fault if someone drinks 15 cans per day, every day?
Deregulation grants freedom to do something if one chooses to or not. Deregulation does not mean forcing someone to do anything--that would be regulation. |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Bryan wrote: |
| nomad-ish wrote: |
| ^ yeah, but besides the potential to screw over FTs even more, there's also the over-worked students to worry about. it is completely and utterly irresponsible for anyone to approve a bill that could have kids up all night at hagwons |
The bill has nothing to do with forcing people to overstudy. That is an issue of parenting.
In America, the government allows people to have an unlimited number of jobs. You can work 4 jobs a day if you can fit them all in. Is it therefore George Bush's fault that someone chooses to be up all night working?
In Korea, you can legally buy as much Coca-Cola as you want. You have the freedom to buy three cases every day. The government does not set the amount of Coca-Cola you are allowed to drink. Is it then the government's fault if someone drinks 15 cans per day, every day?
Deregulation grants freedom to do something if one chooses to or not. Deregulation does not mean forcing someone to do anything--that would be regulation. |
Why are their regulations in the first place? Why do children have to go to school? Why do we have to pay taxes?
There are things the free market can not regulate on its own, and in the case of Korea, it is obvious that students behavior for 2 years on end is frankly speaking unhealthy.
What they should be doing is reducing this competitive atmosphere among students to do 0.01 percentage point better then everyone else.
I am certainly not against the tutoring business at all, but keeping teenagers awake 7 days a week, till late in the evening can not be good for their mental health.
Kids are already killing themselves in droves here in Korea. It is time for Korea to start thinking about their kids. It's not like they are in abundant supply around here.
On a side note; yes, some things are over regulated, but national health is of Prime Importance to any nation. Sick people don't work very well do they. |
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Saxiif
Joined: 15 May 2003
Location: Seongnam
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| It's not like hagwons actually obey the rule about having to close at 10 PM anyway. |
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nomad-ish
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Location: On the bottom of the food chain
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Bryan wrote: |
| nomad-ish wrote: |
| ^ yeah, but besides the potential to screw over FTs even more, there's also the over-worked students to worry about. it is completely and utterly irresponsible for anyone to approve a bill that could have kids up all night at hagwons |
The bill has nothing to do with forcing people to overstudy. That is an issue of parenting.
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the point is hagwons know there is a market for late late night/early morning classes (they've talked to the customers, parents) and want to stay open all night. by allowing them to do so, you know they'll be bringing in a least a few MS/HS students for these night classes.
yes, i know it is a parenting issue, but have you met some these korean parents? some would see absolutely no problem with their kids attending hagwon from 12-2am, for example. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Bryan wrote: |
Deregulation grants freedom to do something if one chooses to or not. Deregulation does not mean forcing someone to do anything--that would be regulation. |
Deregulation means the hagwons are gonna extend their hours and make their Korean teachers work the extra hours without paying them extra. The government is suppose to protect against this type of exploitation of labor.
Just quitting and finding a new job is easy to say, but its harder to do when you get paid little to start off with, have bills, and need to compete with over 100 other people for every job you apply for.
Free market is fine and all when everyone is playing by the rules. |
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nomad-ish
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Location: On the bottom of the food chain
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: Should Hagwon Run Round-the-Clock? |
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| Bryan wrote: |
| garykasparov wrote: |
Civic groups, parents and many experts immediately expressed opposition to the move. They said the ``deregulation'' would force students to study all night long and harm their health as well as pose a threat to the public educational system. |
Who are these "experts"--experts in having their heads up their asses?
Deregulation by definition is the opposite of forcing someone to do anything. It means allowing more choice. People who previously could not study at night would be able to study, and nobody would be forced to study at night by the government. The government doesn't put a gun to people's heads and force them to study at late-night hagwons. |
the current regulation on hagwon times is the only thing stopping some korean parents from sending their kids to hagwons past 10pm. |
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mj roach
Joined: 16 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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most k/kids don't have a 'bed-time'. staying later in a hakwan might actually give them more time to sleep. ever been to an all subject cram school late in the evening? 1/2 of the kids have their heads on the desk sleeping. if they weren't in a hakwan, they'd either be 'studying' (?) at home or more likely... playing computer games anyway.
either way -won't affect f/eng. teachers - more likely longer hours for k/t |
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Bryan
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Juregen wrote: |
| Why are their regulations in the first place? |
To violate people's freedom.
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| Why do children have to go to school? |
They don't have to go to government schools. Private education, homeschooling, and any other way is capable of producing educated students.
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| Why do we have to pay taxes? |
Because the government will throw you in jail if you don't.
| Quote: |
| There are things the free market can not regulate on its own, and in the case of Korea, it is obvious that students behavior for 2 years on end is frankly speaking unhealthy. |
So the Korean people are irrational idiots, who must be regulated by dictators? And the dictator is all knowing, but the people who elect him aren't. Koreans don't know what they want and need, only an omnipotent dictator knows what every individual wants and needs?
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| What they should be doing is reducing this competitive atmosphere among students to do 0.01 percentage point better then everyone else. |
The government's job isn't to legislate people's values.
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| I am certainly not against the tutoring business at all, but keeping teenagers awake 7 days a week, till late in the evening can not be good for their mental health. |
It certainly can't, but it doesn't have anything to do with the government. Bad parenting is the issue. Quite a few people use tutoring properly.
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| Kids are already killing themselves in droves here in Korea. It is time for Korea to start thinking about their kids. It's not like they are in abundant supply around here. |
It's time for parents to be good parents in the cases where they are inadequate. It's not time for the government to enforce arbitrary rules which will harm other people who can and should be able to study.
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| On a side note; yes, some things are over regulated, but national health is of Prime Importance to any nation. Sick people don't work very well do they. |
Yes, health is important. That's exactly why the health care industry should be unregulated. I'd argue that food and shelter are of even greater importance to immediate health, and they should remain unregulated as well.
Last edited by Bryan on Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:48 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Bryan
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:43 pm Post subject: Re: Should Hagwon Run Round-the-Clock? |
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| nomad-ish wrote: |
the current regulation on hagwon times is the only thing stopping some korean parents from sending their kids to hagwons past 10pm. |
Parents will send their kids to hagwons past 10pm, and people will eat unhealthily. Neither is the government's fault, and neither is under the jurisdiction of the government to regulate the free choices of individuals. Individuals know how to best choose what is in their interest--not you and a band of government men at your sides.
By the way, watch what really happens when this law is enacted: All of the people studying past 10pm will be adult students. In fact, hagwons won't even bother having children's classes during those times because enrollment for children's classes will be too low.
Last edited by Bryan on Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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