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| Is glorifying virginity bad for women? |
| No, women should generally be encouraged to have a minimum of lovers. |
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30% |
[ 8 ] |
| No way! Let's all go to Saudi Arabia (or Bible Belt America)... |
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7% |
[ 2 ] |
| Yes, keep your sticky nose out of people's bedrooms.. |
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61% |
[ 16 ] |
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| Total Votes : 26 |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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 Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:16 am Post subject: Is glorifying virginity bad for women? |
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Haha, I've just been having a good laugh reading stuff like this:
From the New York Times: Students of Virginity
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Fredell began to understand she was in �a culture that says sex is totally O.K.� When a new boyfriend came to her, expressing desire, she managed to �stick to my guns,� she said, but there were �uncouth and socially inept� men, as she considered them, all around, and observing the rituals of her new classmates, Fredell couldn�t help being alarmed. �The hookup culture is so absolutely all-encompassing,� she said. �It�s shocking! It�s everywhere!�
She did nothing about it until her sophomore year. Then she began to read in The Harvard Crimson, the student newspaper, about a new student group on campus � a band of celibates, men and women, calling themselves True Love Revolution. They were pushing, for reasons entirely secular, the cause of premarital sexual abstinence, and Fredell, by this time, was utterly committed to abstinence. She could hardly bear to see it ridiculed in The Crimson. An article about the group�s ice cream social appeared under the headline �Not Tonight, Honey, I Have a Brain Freeze.� A columnist who wrote about the group joked of getting �very, very aroused� just thinking about virgins and wondered if such people might be available for �dry humping.�
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And nearly fell off my chair laughing at this bit:
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The one great difference between them seemed to be in their experience of abstinence. Fredell was unaware of that gap. Whenever sexual urges struck, she told me, she was able to manage them by going on a long run and assumed that everyone should be able to do the same. �The biological drive can be overcome,� she said. �It�s not like it reaches a peak, and you have to go out and have sex.�
�And you don�t go down the street thinking you�d like to have sex with him, him, him and him?� I asked.
�No!� she said, abruptly. �Is that what men do?�
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Which I'd meandered onto from this article: Ivy Hymens: Why glorifying virginity is bad for women
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If you didn't catch the New York Times Magazine piece, "Students of Virginity", make sure to check it out. It serves as a good reminder as to why the abstinence-only, modesty, chastity, or whatever they're calling it at the moment, movement is bad for women.
The piece - which examines the abstinence movement in ivy league colleges - focuses mostly Harvard student Janie Fredell, an outspoken member and speaker with True Love Revolution. What I found interesting is that Fredell tries to explain her penchant for virginity-worship using a feminist analysis:
�People just don�t get it,� Fredell said. �Everyone thinks we�re trying to promote this idea of the meek little virgin female.� She said she was doing no such thing. �I care deeply for women�s rights,� she said...She had awakened to the wage gap, to forced sterilization and female genital mutilation � to the different ways that men have, she said, of controlling women. One of these was sexual. Fredell had seen it often in her own life � men pushing for sex, she said, just to �have something to say in the locker room,� women feeling pressured to have sex in order to maintain a relationship. The more she studied and learned, the more Fredell came to realize that women suffer from having premarital sex, �due to a cultural double standard,� she said, �which devalues women for their sexual pasts and glorifies men for theirs.�
Okay...but isn't the problem the double standard - not the sex? (Shameless plug alert.) If we don't like that women "suffer" from sexual double standards, how is not having sex fighting back? Seems more like giving up to me. Of course, Fredell also frames her views with the idea that it's just men who want or "push" for sex and uses bad science to boot - but that's a whole other post. |
And naturally found myself totally agreeing with the idea that glorifying virginity is a dreadful step back into the dark ages. Good Girls and Bad Girls, eh? All very 'fifties' to me. In all my life, I've never come all this abstinance stuff, but there seems to be a huge movement of it surging up, at least in the US. Bloody hell - all these crazy virgins in your face. Get your rosaries off my ovaries! I don't see anything wrong with practicing abstinance, if that's what you prefer, but I find it disturbing that it's become a huge political movement.
This boring old forum needed sexing up, after all that talk of civility and the like... |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:32 am Post subject: |
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| In all my life, I've never come |
Civility is all well and good, but are you sure the board is ready for this much personal revelation?
But since it is 100% inevitable, I may as well say it and get it out of the way: You've just never met the right man.  |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:34 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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| In all my life, I've never come |
Civility is all well and good, but are you sure the board is ready for this much personal revelation?
But since it is 100% inevitable, I may as well say it and get it out of the way: You've just never met the right man. |
Well spotted! |
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Atavistic
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: How totally stupid that Korean doesn't show in this area.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:58 am Post subject: |
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I don't see anything wrong with practicing abstinence, if that's what you prefer, but I find it disturbing that it's become a huge political movement.
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If I replace "abstinence" with "homosexuality" I don't agree. Thus, I don't give a shit if virgins want to get political. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:26 am Post subject: |
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| Atavistic wrote: |
I don't see anything wrong with practicing abstinence, if that's what you prefer, but I find it disturbing that it's become a huge political movement.
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If I replace "abstinence" with "homosexuality" I don't agree. Thus, I don't give a shit if virgins want to get political. |
No, it's completely different. Homosexuals aren't trying to get me to be a homosexual. They aren't telling me that I am 'dirty' and 'cheap' because I won't screw other women. They aren't telling me that I am a 'bad girl' because I won't sleep with the pretty girl next door. They aren't telling me that I have a form of mental illness because I like sex. And they aren't trying to force policies onto aid organisations in the third world, cutting their funding when they discuss or address heterosexuality (and health issues that might accompany it) when they assist desperate people in poverty and life-threatening circumstances. Wrong analogy. Try again please! |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:49 am Post subject: |
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| Should I repeat my Vasectomy rant? |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:51 am Post subject: |
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| cbclark4 wrote: |
| Should I repeat my Vasectomy rant? |
Yes, I'm sure I shall enjoy it. I haven't heard a vasectomy rant, ever. I'm a vasectomy-rant virgin, so to speak. |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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Milwaukiedave
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Location: Goseong
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:28 am Post subject: |
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CB, I agree with you on the vasectomy idea. A lot of people are way too careless these days. I had a close call when I was 19 and it scared the hell out of me. If at that point my actions had caused me to become a parent, I would have probably not graduated from college and ended up in some deadend job. It goes to show, it takes just a second of stupidity to screw your life up.
I see nothing wrong with virginity. I'd only advocate safe sex if someone is thinking about being sexually active. |
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agentX
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Location: Jeolla province
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:54 am Post subject: |
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Naaahhh...it's not important.
Women on college have more to worry about, things like sexual assault.
http://www.wbko.com/news/headlines/6233526.html
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"National statistics show that one in three females and one in six males will be the victims of sexual assault in their lifetime," Elizabeth Mohon said.
Mohon is the Sexual Assault Services Coordinator at Western Kentucky University. She helps educate students and faculty members to be aware of the sexual assault problem.
"This is a silent epidemic going on in our community, in our country, in the world," Mohon said. |
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IMF crisis
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| I don't see how it would be bad for women. I can see how it is very bad and unfair if virginity is held as some sort of standard for only one sex and not the other, though. ANd when you say it is so "fifties," does that mean it is bad? Is every way of looking at things better now than it was in the past? |
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crusher_of_heads
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Location: kimbop and kimchi for kimberly!!!!
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:04 am Post subject: |
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| Big Bird, Saudi Arabia's moral code is just plain retarded. |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:35 am Post subject: Re: Is glorifying virginity bad for women? |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| I don't see anything wrong with practicing abstinance, if that's what you prefer, but I find it disturbing that it's become a huge political movement. |
Why do you care if there are movements to promote abstinence or not? Has anyone EVER told you that you have to abstain from sex? Threatened you? Why is it that someone who believes differently from you is so bad? Not very open-minded, are you?
Would you be OK with movements that promote women screwing anything that moves? |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| agentX wrote: |
Naaahhh...it's not important.
Women on college have more to worry about, things like sexual assault.
http://www.wbko.com/news/headlines/6233526.html
| Quote: |
"National statistics show that one in three females and one in six males will be the victims of sexual assault in their lifetime," Elizabeth Mohon said.
Mohon is the Sexual Assault Services Coordinator at Western Kentucky University. She helps educate students and faculty members to be aware of the sexual assault problem.
"This is a silent epidemic going on in our community, in our country, in the world," Mohon said. |
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What do they mean by sexual assault, though? Would that figure include someone coming up and grabbing a girl's breast, for example? Horrible and disgusting, but not on the level of rape. I'd be interested to know, because I find it hard to believe that 1 in 3 girls are raped.
But some might argue that the two issues are sometimes linked - i.e. attitudes to women and what have you, nice girls and cheap girls... you can more easily get away with rape if you choose a girl that society has labelled as 'easy' for example. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:55 am Post subject: |
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Sorry to go against the grain of this thread, but I'm naturally given to playing the role of the (more-or-less) wise preacher/teacher/creature ...
From my understanding of Vedic cultural perspective (the original ideal social scheme) sex should be regulated in such a way that gradual detachment develops as one becomes more attached to spiritual life.
Our very existence in the material world is considered a kind of diseased condition (for the spirit-soul.)
As with any disease, some restricted diet/activity is required in order to regain our former healthy condition.
If we still lust for sex at the time of death, then - by nature's law - we gotta be born again (in some form) to try to fulfill those desires.
Because sex desire is insatiable, no one can become really satisfied, and having more sex just pours more fuel on the fire (although a big dose may momentarily appear to put the fire out.)
As far as possible, sex should voluntarily be restricted to marriage; but the generally oversexed, materialistic cultures created by lusty men have promoted the idea of independent, "liberated", women (mainly to exploit -rather than protect - them.)
Real liberation entails not sexual politics, but ultimately freeing oneself from all material bodily conceptions and experiencing unlimited beauty and pleasure in self-luminous universes created by the Supreme Enjoyer of all loving relationships...
According to self-realized souls, the pleasure derived from material sex-life amounts to barely a drop of happiness compared to the ocean of transcendental nectar awaiting us in the Spiritual Sky... |
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