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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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 Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:24 am Post subject: Pro-China rallies in Toronto |
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Rival rallies debate turmoil in Tibet
Hundreds fill Yonge-Dundas Square in support of China as pro-Tibet group targets Chinese consulate
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Thousands of red Chinese flags waved in the sunshine over Yonge-Dundas Square yesterday at a rally for peace in troubled Tibet.
Organized by an ad hoc group of Chinese students in Toronto � many of whom are studying here on visas � the peaceful rally urged Canadians to support a unified China.
And students and speakers denied charges, made at an earlier pro-Tibet protest in front of the Chinese consulate on St. George St., that the Chinese government promoted the event at Yonge-Dundas Square.
"There was not one single organization or branch of the Chinese government that had anything to do with this," said rally spokesperson Alexander Lao.
"It is just a concert in the name of all of China. We just want to protest the violence that has happened. But we are not here against anyone."
Fresh protests broke out in the Tibetan capital, Lhasa, yesterday as foreign diplomats wrapped up a tightly controlled visit organized by Beijing, Tibetan activists reported.
One protest at Lhasa's Ramoche monastery grew to involve "many people," said Kate Saunders of the Washington-based International Campaign for Tibet, but the situation eventually calmed. Others protested at the Jokhang Temple in Lhasa, the government-in-exile of the Dalai Lama, the Tibetan Buddhist leader, said on its website.
Yonge-Dundas Square protesters insisted China has been wrongly blamed for violent riots in Tibet.
Simon Ho, 20, a University of Toronto student, said though rioters were violent, "the government was really calm. There was no clash like the western media is saying."
But pro-Tibet protesters outside the Chinese consulate said China was behind the violence.
"The Chinese ambassador to Canada said Dalai Lama has been lying for decades," said Dick Chan of the Toronto Association for Democracy in China. "We know who really has been lying for decades. It's the current regime in China."
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http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/407232 |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:36 am Post subject: |
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Well, catman, you beat me to the punch on posting this thread but thanks.
Anyone who has read even a smattering of my posts knows that I'm no China basher but this situation in Tibet bothers me a lot.
And now we have Chinese students chanting death threats at Tibetan leaders in a foreign country. And they have the audacity to claim entitlement to tell the Tibetans to leave Canada!
If I were Canadian, I'd be incensed by this public rally. I mean, imagine if a Canadian or other Westerner organized a rally of students in Beijing to protest something happening in their country and then told their compatriots who disagreed to leave China!
When it comes to defending the Motherland, even educated Chinese lose all sense of rationality. They're even worse about Taiwan.
I'm afraid that the term "Ugly Chinese" will soon be coined. We're going to see more and more of this around the globe as Chinese flaunt their newfound power.
Although I'm married to one and love the traditional culture (well, most of it), I detest the Communist government and the new nationalistic and jingoistic fervor there.
And kudos to the German chancellor for boycotting the opening ceremony. It's the right move and doesn't punish the athletes or prevent the games from running smoothly. |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| I'm not offended by the rally. I support their right to free speech and freedom of assembly. Ironically something they don't have back home. |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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Old guard commies came out.  |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Does that old guard commie have pay pal? Because I'd like to buy him a hair cut. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| catman wrote: |
I'm not offended by the rally.
I support their right to free speech and freedom of assembly.
Ironically something they don't have back home. |
In China you have all the freedom you want ... just so long as you support the "official" party line 
Remember how during those anti-Japanese riots a few years back, Beijing trumpeted their support of democratic rights? 
Tibetan Speaker Says Crackdown Continues
By HENRY SANDERSON, Associated Press Writer
Sun Mar 30, 7:13 PM ET
BEIJING - The speaker of Tibet's parliament-in-exile called Sunday for China to end its "brutal" crackdown against Tibetans and to allow independent observers into isolated Himalayan region.
China's Premier Wen Jiabao, however, said during a visit to Laos that the Tibetan capital, Lhasa, was "basically stable" and "social order has returned to normal." 
The Tibetan official, Karma Chophel, said at a news conference in Rome that the unrest was a response by Tibetans to China's hard-line rule over the region, and not fomented by the Dalai Lama or other exiles.
"Those who know the true fact of the matter know that clearly this is a genuine outcry and outburst of Chinese misrule over the Tibetan people," Chophel said. "Our demand is that (an) independent, neutral, unbiased, international group should go into Tibet and try to find out the real situation."
He added that China "is waiting to label Tibetans as terrorists (to) try to legitimize their crackdown internationally."
MORE ...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080330/ap_on_re_as/china_tibet |
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vertical loser
Joined: 08 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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While some western media (a minority, from what I saw) reported inaccurately on the Tibetan riots and protests (there were both), it still doesn't mean Tibet is all hunky-dory. Steve McGarrett is right. Chinese people do lose all rationality when it comes their country's matters. Some of the stuff you see them writing on the net is simply stark raving mad. If China was a person, it would be in therapy, and cognitive reality therapy (and lashings of electric shock treatment) would be the only cure. Blaming the west and the Dalai Lama for the situatin in TB is ridiculous. The DL is basically a pacifist (though he says war is legitimate in some situations), and I have never seen anything that would suggest otherwise. But the net is ablaze with Chinese people convinced he organised violence in Tibet, and that the west is behind it too. Of course this is also the government angle... not exactly a coincidence. As China's economy has grown, so has China's ego. Unfortunately it has swollen to such a size that it has become delusional. China has a long history of seeing itself as the centre of the world, and the foreigners as barbarians. You still get the Han supremacy thing quite a lot, complete with generic putdowns of other races for being genetically inferior, or predisposed to genetic weakness. These are a minority in China, but still a scary bunch.
I have been willing to suspend doubt on China till this latest incident. Now I am quite worried about its future, and its getting harder to remain hopeful. Chinese people just don't se themselves as part of the outside world. There's China, Chinatown, then the others. The Chinese word for China is Zhonggou (middle country). The word for foreigners is waiguouren (outside country people). So, you are either in the centre, or you are out.
Basically the Beijing authorities have turned the TB incident into a China vs west thing. The people have bought it hook, line and sinker. It's a very disturbing turn of events. Without public space for dissent and introspection, there is no room for anybody in China to challenge what's happening. |
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Harpeau
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Location: Coquitlam, BC
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:57 am Post subject: |
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China is like a person in denial. Like M. Scott Peck's book "People of the Lie", they neither take responsibility for their actions (mistakes), nor feel any sense of guilt, but instead fling it all onto others.
How Jackie Chan and the tall basketball player sleep, heck I'll never know. I imagine that they're wondering what the heck did I get into. They probably want a VISA to go to the Moon. It's so frickin' embarrassing, I know I would. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:25 am Post subject: |
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| Harpeau wrote: |
China is like a person in denial.
Like M. Scott Peck's book "People of the Lie", they neither take responsibility for their actions (mistakes),
nor feel any sense of guilt, but instead fling it all onto others. |
BLAME THE VICTIM
Common psychopathic quality. |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:43 am Post subject: |
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catman wrote:
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| I'm not offended by the rally. I support their right to free speech and freedom of assembly. Ironically something they don't have back home. |
Oh, don't get me wrong. They have the RIGHT to do it and well they should in a democracy like Canada. But should they be doing it--no, sir. As Voltaire said, "I may not agree with a word you say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
Sadly, few of these so-called open-minded and better educated Chinese students will realize the irony of their situation, as you say.
Harpeau blathered:
| Quote: |
China is like a person in denial. Like M. Scott Peck's book "People of the Lie", they neither take responsibility for their actions (mistakes), nor feel any sense of guilt, but instead fling it all onto others.
How Jackie Chan and the tall basketball player sleep, heck I'll never know. I imagine that they're wondering what the heck did I get into. They probably want a VISA to go to the Moon. It's so frickin' embarrassing, I know I would. |
Why is it that posters with guitars on this forum are so clueless? Since when does Jackie Chan or Yao Ming bear responsibility for what happens in Tibet? They are promoting an Olympic event as athletes; it's not their obligation to account for what the government does. If that were true, would you require American, Australian, and European athletes whose countries were involved in the invasion of Iraq to hide their heads in shame? |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:56 am Post subject: |
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Good point Stevie ...
As much as i am utterly repulsed by China's collective psychopathic delusion, in principle i too support their philosophical right to state their jingoistic & imperialist views  |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:29 am Post subject: |
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| catman wrote: |
| I'm not offended by the rally. I support their right to free speech and freedom of assembly. Ironically something they don't have back home. |
Politics is a complicated thing. You think the Tibetans have a real cause, because they are Buddhists and have a history of a lot of pacifism and they were occupied at around 1950. What about Serbians protesting against Kossovo? The Serbians think Kossovo belongs to them? What about Cypriot Turks or Greeks? What about the Israelis and Palestinians?Many people feel they have a cause for or against something, right? People all have different opinions. The Chinese people, I am not sure have a lot of sympathy for the Tibetans. Maybe some do. I personally do like a lot of things about Tibetan culture, and, in some ways, I prefer ancient Chinese culture than the modern one, though I admire the fact China has built a very modern country. We feel more for the Tibetans, because of the deep soul in the Dalai Lama, and the appearance of crass materialism among the Chinese elites, perhaps. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:09 am Post subject: |
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Tibet
Listen / Download Audio Now
http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/current/audioonly/rvn_20080330.mp3
Over the past few weeks protests against Chinese rule in Tibet have erupted across Tibet and internationally.
At issue is the question of Chinese sovereignty over Tibet.
In Rear Vision today we take a look at the historical claims over Tibet.
Guests
Thomas Laird
Journalist and author who was based in the Himalayas for 30 years
John Powers
Reader at the Centre for Asian Societies and Histories, Australian National University.
Carole McGranahan
Assistant professor of anthropology at the University of Colorado, specialising in contemporary Tibetan culture, history, and politics.
Publications
Title: Tibet Between Empire And Exile
Author: Carole Mcgranahan
Publisher: Palgrave 2006
Title: The Story of Tibet: Conversations with the Dalai Lama
Author: Thomas Laird
Publisher: Grove Press 2007
Title: Tibet's Cold War: The CIA and the Chushi Gangdrug Resitance 1956-1974
Author: Carole McGranahan
Publisher: Journal of ColdWar Studies 8.3 (Summer 2006): 102-130. doi:
Title: INTO TIBET: The CIA's First Atomic Spy and His Secret Expedition to Lhasa
Author: Thomas Laird
Publisher: Grove Press 2002
Title: History As Propaganda: Tibetan Exiles versus the People's Republic of China
Author: John Powers
Publisher: Oxford University Press 2004
Presenter & Producer
Annabelle Quince
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/rearvision/stories/2008/2200921.htm |
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crescent
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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I knew a Chinese exchange student in Canada way back during th Tiananmen (sic) Square massacre,
He said the students deserved it as they were corrupting the masses. HE said there are too many people in China, so control is necessary.
This was Uni student, btw! |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| crescent wrote: |
I knew a Chinese exchange student in Canada way back during th Tiananmen (sic) Square massacre,
He said the students deserved it as they were corrupting the masses.
HE said there are too many people in China, so control is necessary.
This was Uni student, btw! |
Prime example of politically "correct" psychopathy  |
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