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[igotthisguitar]

Tibet ( Cry of the Snow Lion )
1 hr 44 min - 2007-06-19



http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=6538297962102766026&q=tibet+documentary&total=463&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

[Suwoner10]

This documentary needs to be punched in the face for its title.

Ew, Cryyyyyy. of the snow lion. Mew mew.

[igotthisguitar]

[crescent]

It's a sad, sad world.

[JMO]

Cry of the Snow Lion!! That name is so bad, it is fantastic.

[yawarakaijin]

I watched it. I thought it was a pretty good documentary. For all the young wild eyed university kids and others demanding the independence of Tibet it seems like most people are pretty ignorant of what is actually happening there.

It is much more than the chinese government roughing up a few monks every now and then. In some ways, focusing on just monks/religious aspects of this situation does a great injustice to the suffering (past and present) of average Tibetans. It was more than just a few religious centres that were taken over and put under the control of the communist government, it was an entire nation. It is not only the monks that are suffering but the entire poplulation. From what I have read about Tibet, the peasant class wasn't exactly in the greatest of shape under the care of the religious establishment. While I admire the monks and their goals, I think it is a shame they seem to have become the entire focus.

I think the situation would be served better if more attention were placed on the human rights abuses and violations of international law that China is responsible for in the region. Just my two cents.

[yawarakaijin]

While the following article in no way diminishes what is happening in Tibet here is an interesting piece on life in "Shangri-la" taken from http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html


But what of Tibetan Buddhism? Is it not an exception to this sort of strife? And what of the society it helped to create? Many Buddhists maintain that, before the Chinese crackdown in 1959, old Tibet was a spiritually oriented kingdom free from the egotistical lifestyles, empty materialism, and corrupting vices that beset modern industrialized society. Western news media, travel books, novels, and Hollywood films have portrayed the Tibetan theocracy as a veritable Shangri-La. The Dalai Lama himself stated that �the pervasive influence of Buddhism� in Tibet, �amid the wide open spaces of an unspoiled environment resulted in a society dedicated to peace and harmony. We enjoyed freedom and contentment.� 4

A reading of Tibet�s history suggests a somewhat different picture. �Religious conflict was commonplace in old Tibet,� writes one western Buddhist practitioner. �History belies the Shangri-La image of Tibetan lamas and their followers living together in mutual tolerance and nonviolent goodwill. Indeed, the situation was quite different. Old Tibet was much more like Europe during the religious wars of the Counterreformation.� 5 In the thirteenth century, Emperor Kublai Khan created the first Grand Lama, who was to preside over all the other lamas as might a pope over his bishops. Several centuries later, the Emperor of China sent an army into Tibet to support the Grand Lama, an ambitious 25-year-old man, who then gave himself the title of Dalai (Ocean) Lama, ruler of all Tibet. Here is a historical irony: the first Dalai Lama was installed by a Chinese army.

His two previous lama �incarnations� were then retroactively recognized as his predecessors, thereby transforming the 1st Dalai Lama into the 3rd Dalai Lama. This 1st (or 3rd) Dalai Lama seized monasteries that did not belong to his sect, and is believed to have destroyed Buddhist writings that conflicted with his claim to divinity. The Dalai Lama who succeeded him pursued a sybaritic life, enjoying many mistresses, partying with friends, and acting in other ways deemed unfitting for an incarnate deity. For these transgressions he was murdered by his priests. Within 170 years, despite their recognized divine status, five Dalai Lamas were killed by their high priests or other courtiers. 6

For hundreds of years competing Tibetan Buddhist sects engaged in bitterly violent clashes and summary executions. In 1660, the 5th Dalai Lama was faced with a rebellion in Tsang province, the stronghold of the rival Kagyu sect with its high lama known as the Karmapa. The 5th Dalai Lama called for harsh retribution against the rebels, directing the Mongol army to obliterate the male and female lines, and the offspring too �like eggs smashed against rocks�. In short, annihilate any traces of them, even their names.� 7

In 1792, many Kagyu monasteries were confiscated and their monks were forcibly converted to the Gelug sect (the Dalai Lama�s denomination). The Gelug school, known also as the �Yellow Hats,� showed little tolerance or willingness to mix their teachings with other Buddhist sects. In the words of one of their traditional prayers: �Praise to you, violent god of the Yellow Hat teachings/who reduces to particles of dust/ great beings, high officials and ordinary people/ who pollute and corrupt the Gelug doctrine.� 8 An eighteenth-century memoir of a Tibetan general depicts sectarian strife among Buddhists that is as brutal and bloody as any religious conflict might be. 9 This grim history remains largely unvisited by present-day followers of Tibetan Buddhism in the West.

Religions have had a close relationship not only with violence but with economic exploitation. Indeed, it is often the economic exploitation that necessitates the violence. Such was the case with the Tibetan theocracy. Until 1959, when the Dalai Lama last presided over Tibet, most of the arable land was still organized into manorial estates worked by serfs. These estates were owned by two social groups: the rich secular landlords and the rich theocratic lamas. Even a writer sympathetic to the old order allows that �a great deal of real estate belonged to the monasteries, and most of them amassed great riches.� Much of the wealth was accumulated �through active participation in trade, commerce, and money lending.� 10

Drepung monastery was one of the biggest landowners in the world, with its 185 manors, 25,000 serfs, 300 great pastures, and 16,000 herdsmen. The wealth of the monasteries rested in the hands of small numbers of high-ranking lamas. Most ordinary monks lived modestly and had no direct access to great wealth. The Dalai Lama himself �lived richly in the 1000-room, 14-story Potala Palace.� 11

Secular leaders also did well. A notable example was the commander-in-chief of the Tibetan army, a member of the Dalai Lama�s lay Cabinet, who owned 4,000 square kilometers of land and 3,500 serfs. 12 Old Tibet has been misrepresented by some Western admirers as �a nation that required no police force because its people voluntarily observed the laws of karma.� 13 In fact. it had a professional army, albeit a small one, that served mainly as a gendarmerie for the landlords to keep order, protect their property, and hunt down runaway serfs.

Young Tibetan boys were regularly taken from their peasant families and brought into the monasteries to be trained as monks. Once there, they were bonded for life. Tash�-Tsering, a monk, reports that it was common for peasant children to be sexually mistreated in the monasteries. He himself was a victim of repeated rape, beginning at age nine. 14 The monastic estates also conscripted children for lifelong servitude as domestics, dance performers, and soldiers.

In old Tibet there were small numbers of farmers who subsisted as a kind of free peasantry, and perhaps an additional 10,000 people who composed the �middle-class� families of merchants, shopkeepers, and small traders. Thousands of others were beggars. There also were slaves, usually domestic servants, who owned nothing. Their offspring were born into slavery. 15 The majority of the rural population were serfs. Treated little better than slaves, the serfs went without schooling or medical care, They were under a lifetime bond to work the lord's land--or the monastery�s land--without pay, to repair the lord's houses, transport his crops, and collect his firewood. They were also expected to provide carrying animals and transportation on demand.16 Their masters told them what crops to grow and what animals to raise. They could not get married without the consent of their lord or lama. And they might easily be separated from their families should their owners lease them out to work in a distant location. 17

As in a free labor system and unlike slavery, the overlords had no responsibility for the serf�s maintenance and no direct interest in his or her survival as an expensive piece of property. The serfs had to support themselves. Yet as in a slave system, they were bound to their masters, guaranteeing a fixed and permanent workforce that could neither organize nor strike nor freely depart as might laborers in a market context. The overlords had the best of both worlds.

One 22-year old woman, herself a runaway serf, reports: �Pretty serf girls were usually taken by the owner as house servants and used as he wished�; they �were just slaves without rights.�18 Serfs needed permission to go anywhere. Landowners had legal authority to capture those who tried to flee. One 24-year old runaway welcomed the Chinese intervention as a �liberation.� He testified that under serfdom he was subjected to incessant toil, hunger, and cold. After his third failed escape, he was merciless beaten by the landlord�s men until blood poured from his nose and mouth. They then poured alcohol and caustic soda on his wounds to increase the pain, he claimed.19

The serfs were taxed upon getting married, taxed for the birth of each child and for every death in the family. They were taxed for planting a tree in their yard and for keeping animals. They were taxed for religious festivals and for public dancing and drumming, for being sent to prison and upon being released. Those who could not find work were taxed for being unemployed, and if they traveled to another village in search of work, they paid a passage tax. When people could not pay, the monasteries lent them money at 20 to 50 percent interest. Some debts were handed down from father to son to grandson. Debtors who could not meet their obligations risked being cast into slavery.20

The theocracy�s religious teachings buttressed its class order. The poor and afflicted were taught that they had brought their troubles upon themselves because of their wicked ways in previous lives. Hence they had to accept the misery of their present existence as a karmic atonement and in anticipation that their lot would improve in their next lifetime. The rich and powerful treated their good fortune as a reward for, and tangible evidence of, virtue in past and present lives.

The Tibetan serfs were something more than superstitious victims, blind to their own oppression. As we have seen, some ran away; others openly resisted, sometimes suffering dire consequences. In feudal Tibet, torture and mutilation--including eye gouging, the pulling out of tongues, hamstringing, and amputation--were favored punishments inflicted upon thieves, and runaway or resistant serfs. Journeying through Tibet in the 1960s, Stuart and Roma Gelder interviewed a former serf, Tsereh Wang Tuei, who had stolen two sheep belonging to a monastery. For this he had both his eyes gouged out and his hand mutilated beyond use. He explains that he no longer is a Buddhist: �When a holy lama told them to blind me I thought there was no good in religion.�21 Since it was against Buddhist teachings to take human life, some offenders were severely lashed and then �left to God� in the freezing night to die. �The parallels between Tibet and medieval Europe are striking,� concludes Tom Grunfeld in his book on Tibet. 22

In 1959, Anna Louise Strong visited an exhibition of torture equipment that had been used by the Tibetan overlords. There were handcuffs of all sizes, including small ones for children, and instruments for cutting off noses and ears, gouging out eyes, breaking off hands, and hamstringing legs. There were hot brands, whips, and special implements for disemboweling. The exhibition presented photographs and testimonies of victims who had been blinded or crippled or suffered amputations for thievery. There was the shepherd whose master owed him a reimbursement in yuan and wheat but refused to pay. So he took one of the master�s cows; for this he had his hands severed. Another herdsman, who opposed having his wife taken from him by his lord, had his hands broken off. There were pictures of Communist activists with noses and upper lips cut off, and a woman who was raped and then had her nose sliced away.23

Earlier visitors to Tibet commented on the theocratic despotism. In 1895, an Englishman, Dr. A. L. Waddell, wrote that the populace was under the �intolerable tyranny of monks� and the devil superstitions they had fashioned to terrorize the people. In 1904 Perceval Landon described the Dalai Lama�s rule as �an engine of oppression.� At about that time, another English traveler, Captain W.F.T. O�Connor, observed that �the great landowners and the priests� exercise each in their own dominion a despotic power from which there is no appeal,� while the people are �oppressed by the most monstrous growth of monasticism and priest-craft.� Tibetan rulers �invented degrading legends and stimulated a spirit of superstition� among the common people. In 1937, another visitor, Spencer Chapman, wrote, �The Lamaist monk does not spend his time in ministering to the people or educating them. . . . The beggar beside the road is nothing to the monk. Knowledge is the jealously guarded prerogative of the monasteries and is used to increase their influence and wealth.�24 As much as we might wish otherwise, feudal theocratic Tibet was a far cry from the romanticized Shangri La so enthusiastically nurtured by Buddhism�s western proselytes.

[crescent]

I find it reprehensible that the world's superpowers cannot band together and force this issue.
I know each nation is worried about falling under the stampede to China's opening economy, but solidarity will affect China greatly.

America needs to drop it's propaganda of fighting for freedom and democracy around the world. They do anything but that.

[igotthisguitar]

Chinese Envoy Calls Dalai Lama A "Liar"
By ROB GILLIES, Associated Press Writer
Wed Mar 26, 6:34 PM ET

OTTAWA - China's ambassador to Canada called the Dalai Lama a liar Wednesday and said it is "irresponsible"
... for people to criticize China's record on human rights.



In a rare news conference at his embassy, Lu Shumin defended the Chinese military's crackdown on Tibetan protesters that has brought calls for a boycott of this summer's Olympic Games in Beijing.

"The Dalai Lama has presented himself to be a peaceful, angel-like figure, for such a long time," Lu said. "If you look at what the Dalai Lama is, what Tibet was like before 1959, you will find out really what Dalai Lama was and still is."

Asked why many in Western countries support Tibetans' protests against rule by China, Lu said the Dalai Lama "has been telling lies to the world for decades."

Lu also said that "any remarks made accusing China of so-called human rights suppression, I consider that irresponsible and inappropriate, and it's ... interference in China's ... internal issues."

Dermod Travis, executive director of the Canada Tibet Committee, said Chinese officials around the world are trying "to tear down the Dalai Lama in some belief that this will advance their authoritarian approach to the human rights questions in China."

The Dalai Lama is lauded in much of the world as a figure of moral authority, but Beijing demonizes the 1989 Nobel Peace Prize laureate and claims he seeks to destroy China's sovereignty by pushing for independence for Tibet.

The Dalai Lama says he wants "real autonomy" for Tibet, not independence. Living in exile in India, he is immensely popular in the Himalayan region, which Beijing has ruled with a heavy hand since communist Chinese troops took control in 1951.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080326/ap_on_re_as/canada_tibet;_ylt=Ai7cAUBsZ9QxBiP9IYOs4HsDW7oF

[yawarakaijin]

Just curious about something IGTG. What is your take on the way the priesthood in Tibet propagated such hardship on much of Tibet's lower castes? Has the Lama himself ever explained it? The practice of monks ordering runaway slave's eyes to be put our or have them hobbled and all that.

I have a sneaky suspicion that if it the exact same practices of the Tibetan theocracy had been rooted in Koranic scripture many readers of this forum would have a much more sympathetic view of China's actions.

Is it because Tibetan Buddhism is so much more enlightend than Islam, Christianity, Judaism that the west seems to have such a hard on for Tibet or is it simply that western civilization is largely ignorant of what Tibet was really like before the Chinese invaded?

By no means do I support the Chinese governments action, past or present in Tibet, but I find it interesting how we selectively demonize certain regimes when we are often just as guilty for perpetrating the same acts.

[spliff]

It seems to me Tibet ought put up or shut up...if they can't win their sovereignty militarily they'd be better off accepting independence. In world Realpolitik, might is right. The Dali Lamma...

[igotthisguitar]

China Says Tibet Monks "Won't Be Punished"
By John Ruwitch
Fri Mar 28, 6:50 AM ET

BEIJING (Reuters) - China will not punish a group of Tibetan monks for disrupting a government-organized foreign media tour of Lhasa and voicing support for the Dalai Lama, a senior official said in a bid to allay fears of repercussions.

Baema Chilain, vice-chairman of the Chinese-controlled Tibet Autonomous Region, also said "separatists" were planning to disrupt the Olympic torch relay in Tibet.

However, he pledged to ensure the flame's security there and on its planned ascent of Mount Everest, the state news agency Xinhua reported on Friday.

On Thursday, about 30 monks at the Jokhang Temple, one of the holiest in Tibet, shoved their way into a briefing and spent about 15 minutes telling reporters the government was lying about recent unrest. They also rejected Chinese claims the Tibetan spiritual leader was directing the rash of protests.



These monks who staged the bold protest ... will not be punished, Xinhua quoted Baema Chilain as saying.

"But what they said is not true. They were attempting to mislead the world's opinion," he said. "The facts shouldn't be distorted."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AS-4i7P43U

The Dalai Lama, Tibet's spiritual leader who fled to India after a failed uprising in 1959, has condemned the violence and denies he seeks more than greater autonomy for his homeland.

More than two weeks of unrest in Tibet and western China, including violence in Lhasa on March 14, and China's response ahead of the Beijing Olympics in August have sparked international controversy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0zBkFBySyI&feature=related

China hopes the Olympics showcase the achievements of the world's fourth-largest economy and its rise as a global power, but the Games have become a lightning rod for criticism.

"To our knowledge, some separatists from within and outside China are seeking to sabotage the Olympic torch relay within Tibet," said Baema Chilain.

The flame arrives in Beijing on Monday.

"We are confident and capable of ensuring the security of the relay and taking it to the top of the peak," Chilain said.

In Canberra, Australia, police wrestled one protester to the ground during an otherwise peaceful protest by about 100 Tibet supporters in front of the Chinese embassy on Friday. The Tibetan community has promised a bigger protest next month when the Olympic torch arrives.

In Nepal, where there have been demonstrations almost every day since the trouble began this month, about a dozen pro-Tibet protesters jumped the walls of a building housing the offices of the United Nations on Friday, calling for U.N. intervention following the unrest in the Himalayan region.

MONKS BEING STARVED

More than a dozen Western and Asian diplomats were scheduled to leave for Lhasa on Friday as part of a public relations exercise launched by China to limit the damage from the Tibet crisis, envoys said. They will visit for two days.

Critics of China say there is widespread discontent among Tibetans, including monks, who feel their religious practices are restricted, their culture is being suffocated by an influx of Chinese to Tibet and their autonomy is not sufficient.

About 1,000 paramilitary police entered Kirti monastery in Aba (Ngawa) prefecture, Sichuan province, searching for pictures of the Dalai Lama on Friday, Matt Whitticase of the Free Tibet Campaign said.

Telephone calls to the temple were disconnected.

The London-based Campaign said it had received unconfirmed reports from various sources in Tibet that three main monasteries in Lhasa -- Ganden, Sera and Drepung -- have been cut off since March 11, with no access to food, water and electricity.

"The monks in those monasteries are being starved. The reports have said that Tibetan laypeople have attempted to bring food to the monasteries but have been denied access," it said.

Baema Chilain, the Tibet official, said the monks at the monasteries and the Jokhang were being "temporarily confined to the premises as the authorities were investigating allegations that some of them led or participated in the violence."

Taiwan President Chen Shui-bian, who has been strong on human rights since taking office in 2000, urged president-elect Ma Ying-jeou on Friday to offer Tibetans political asylum.

Ma takes office on May 20.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080328/wl_nm/china_tibet_dc_162;_ylt=Akgdgo3gVeEdC7ymT0aM0IP9xg8F