Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Saxiif]

When do you use i/ga and when do you use eun/neun? I can't find a coherent explanation of the difference either from Koreans, textbooks or online and it's annoying the hell out of me since I'm trying to improve my Korean and these particles pop up in nearly every sentence.

My textbook says that one is for subjects and one is for topics, but in the sample sentences they seem to be interchangable. One website I found says that one is use for comparison but the sample sentences I have don't seem to bear that out.

Grrrrrr.

[Atavistic]

Pick up a book called ROADMAP TO KOREAN.

It is the best explanation I've found, though I still can't explain it (or do it!) well.

Basically, I use 기/이 the first time I introduce a subject. I use 은/는 the next time I mention the subject. I also use 은/는 when contrasting. I don't think I ever say 저가 because I always hear 저는.

I found that READING a lot helped me get a better feel as for when to use what... especially since reading will give you sentences with both in them, which helps highlight the difference. Like "학생은 3학년이 됬어요."

But I still screw it up a lot. So take everything I wrote with a chunk of salt.

[doggyji]

Yeah, I guess it can be pretty complicated. There are several different nuances and contexts to consider. For a starter, how would you say Kimbap is tasty in Korean? Let's ignore the sentence ending part. Three options:

1. "김밥 맛있다." (omitting the particle)
2. "김밥이 맛있다."
3. "김밥은 맛있다."

Imagine you are eating Kimbap at your friend's and just want to express your appreciation of tasty Kimbap to her. #1 will do. #2 is okay but if there's no other food than Kimbap, just stick to #1. But #3 will sound absurd if there's no other context.

Now you tried Kimchi next to Kimbap and it tasted horrible. Then, you bluntly said "김치 맛없다! 우웩!". You feel sorry and obliged to go back to complimenting on her food. In this case, you may say "김밥은 진짜 맛있다! (at least your Kimbap is really awesome! I don't know about the other dishes...) (#3)" #1 and #2 sound also okay...

If you say "이 김밥은 맛있다," it may not be insulting to her cooking skills. It can mean "I like this particular Kimbap but the one I had at Kimbap Nara was horrible" rather than "I like this Kimbap but not the other food on this table." She will decide how to interprete it. (There's an issue of where to put an accent. 이 or 김?)

If you want to make a general remark that Kimbap is tasty (forget the particular situations above), "김밥은 맛있다" might be the most suitable. It's kinda bookish context though.

Let's consider another example. The following is three of the possible answers to a question, "누가 갔어요?" (Who has left?).

1. "철수 갔어요."

2. "철수가 갔어요.": It is 철수 who has left. Not the other guys.

3. "철수는 갔어요.": I at least know it is 철수 who has left. (I'm not sure about the other guys.)

It's hard to come up with a coherent way to throughly explain it. I can't spend a whole day on this. I have to leave now. Anyway we can go from this. In a certain situation, you can almost interchangeably use 은/는 and 이/가. It can just be a matter of the frequency of usage rather than right or wrong. In a different situation, one sounds absurd while the other is strongly preferred. Hope someone else can explain this better. It's definitely not something you can ask random Koreans about and expect them to answer quickly, correctly and thoroughly.

[arjuna]

^^ Excellent explanation.

이/은, 이/가, 이/나 constitute scalar implicatures.

http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/robyn/pdf/scalarinference.pdf

http://semanticsarchive.net/Archive/GJiYjQxN/Scalar%20Implicatures.pdf



이/은 difference:

The children are out. -- 이 or no particle; general, no specifics

Where are the children?

Tom is at school.
Mary is out galavanting with her friends. -- both 은

는 is equivalent to 은. 는 is used when the preceding syllable ends in a vowel; 은 when it ends in a consonant.


이/가 difference:

Everyone did it. -- 이

Who did this? (There are candidates for the culprit.)

The cat did it. -- 가



이/나 - a little more complicated.
This involves contrastive disjuctions.

[Atavistic]

This link MAY help.

http://www.learnkoreanlanguage.com/Particles.html

[Justin Hale]

[Atavistic]

[Justin Hale]

The reason you never hear 저가 is because we conjugate 저 to 제 when using the 가 subject marker. It has no other significance. Actually, 저가 means 'a low/moderate price'.

[Atavistic]

[Justin Hale]

[Atavistic]

[Justin Hale]

We have unconfirmed reports coming in that Hell has frozen over.

At first I thought it was absurd how 제 can mean I and my, but if I it's followed by 가 and if my it's followed by a noun.

[samd]

[Atavistic]