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school shipping me around
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irwinpryce



Joined: 30 Apr 2007

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:24 am    Post subject: school shipping me around Reply with quote

Hi,
Im new to Korea, and teaching in a kindergarden hagwon. I am aware that contracts meen jack here, and directors generally dont stick to them. So far I have enjoyed the school and the staff have been very friendly, though all Korean so their english isnt great. I was out drinking last night with a party of english speakers at some social do, my korean recruiter who seems to act as a mediator came along too. She said to me that the director had mentioned to her that they dont have enough classes for me at the school, and that they would like me to work 1 of the days at another kindergarden, though they dont know where it will be, it is in another town and I would have to get the bus. She said its not in my contract and I dont have to, though it would help them if I said yes.

I said I wasnt sure and would think about it. I spoke with other english teachers who gave mixed opinion, many saying its normal and to just do it and see how it goes.

I dont want to say no and have the director messing me around as she might get angry about it.

If I say yes, the school could be miles away, id have to get up earlier and it could be a bad idea, iv heard nasty reports of this on the forum.

Can anyone offer me some opinions and advice?

Thanks
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spliff



Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you don't get paid any more for doing it, don't.
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Unposter



Joined: 04 Jun 2006

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alot depends on what you value.

If they don't have enough classes for you, your hakwon may not make enough money or loose money and your job might disapear or they may pay you late or not at all. Certainly not your fault. And, you may eventually get your money but if they really do go under, there might not be any money to get.

On the other hand, going to another city might be a great big hassle. Furthermore, you may find out later that your Director is making alot of money by you going there, and you may not see any of it. Transparency is not big here.

The whole thing could be a test. Your director maybe trying to figure out how far he or she can push you. If you give in now, he or she might keep asking for more.

I would say the whole thing is a big red flag that things are not quite right at your school. Whatever you decide, it could be just the beginning.

Minimumly, you might want some kind of incentive in exchange for the lost time traveling.

Good luck!
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bassexpander



Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, first of all, if it's not approved and written on the back of your ARC (assuming you're not an F-visa holder) then it's illegal no matter what they say. You are only allowed to work in 1 location, unless additional locations are approved. You'd be opening yourself up to fines, possible deportation, and likely flight fees after an exit order (as I had to endure once).

Also, they'd better pay you well, and account for travel pay and time.

Personally, I'd say no.
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Lekker



Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ask them for a car. Tell them you won't do it without a car.
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ttompatz



Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:08 am    Post subject: Re: school shipping me around Reply with quote

irwinpryce wrote:
Hi,
Im new to Korea, and teaching in a kindergarden hagwon. I am aware that contracts meen jack here, and directors generally dont stick to them. So far I have enjoyed the school and the staff have been very friendly, though all Korean so their english isnt great. I was out drinking last night with a party of english speakers at some social do, my korean recruiter who seems to act as a mediator came along too. She said to me that the director had mentioned to her that they dont have enough classes for me at the school, and that they would like me to work 1 of the days at another kindergarden, though they dont know where it will be, it is in another town and I would have to get the bus. She said its not in my contract and I dont have to, though it would help them if I said yes.

I said I wasnt sure and would think about it. I spoke with other english teachers who gave mixed opinion, many saying its normal and to just do it and see how it goes.

I dont want to say no and have the director messing me around as she might get angry about it.

If I say yes, the school could be miles away, id have to get up earlier and it could be a bad idea, iv heard nasty reports of this on the forum.

Can anyone offer me some opinions and advice?

Thanks


IF you are on an E2 visa is it ILLEGAL without the PRIOR approval (and appropriate notation on your ARC) from immigration.
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PGF



Joined: 27 Nov 2006

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Under NO circumstance should you do this- not because it's illegal, but because it's you getting ripped off.

how many hours are you teaching at your haggy?
last year I worked as little as 20/week and I was always paid i.e., the hag was making money


BTW, PT kindy jobs in my neighborhood pay 50K/hour (not that many people are knocking the door down to get at them).
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Dome Vans
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Irwinpryce,

If it's anything like your last thread, these people have no idea what they're doing. You're the first teacher and you need to set them straight on what's what. If they can't fill your hours then tough s*it, they pay you the salary that is in your contract, but extra work like this is illegal and you need to put your foot down.

What I find strange is that my ARC has no indication of who my employer is. It has my address, the validity dates etc but on the back it has nothing. I'm sure the back is only used if another address is added, not the first one. Any clarification of this?

Did you post up the contract for this place on the contract posting thread?
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PGF



Joined: 27 Nov 2006

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dome Vans wrote:
Irwinpryce,

If it's anything like your last thread, these people have no idea what they're doing. You're the first teacher and you need to set them straight on what's what. If they can't fill your hours then tough s*it, they pay you the salary that is in your contract, but extra work like this is illegal and you need to put your foot down.

What I find strange is that my ARC has no indication of who my employer is. It has my address, the validity dates etc but on the back it has nothing. I'm sure the back is only used if another address is added, not the first one. Any clarification of this?

Did you post up the contract for this place on the contract posting thread?


the back on mine was only filled out when I got the F. It has my address and an f21

The address on the front was and is, my first school.
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:17 am    Post subject: Re: school shipping me around Reply with quote

irwinpryce wrote:
I am aware that contracts meen jack here, and directors generally dont stick to them.


W R O N G !

Look, the Labor Board and the courts, if it comes to that, will look to the contract prior to making a decision based on any case you may take to them. The contract does mean something unless there are portions of it that contravene Korean law. In that case, only those portions that contravene law are of no effect.

Want to know who else demands you abide by the contract? YOUR BOSS! He will, of course, demand you follow the portions of the contract that benefit him.

Quote:
I said I wasnt sure and would think about it. I spoke with other english teachers who gave mixed opinion, many saying its normal and to just do it and see how it goes.


It's not normal, it's illegal without permission from Immigration.

Quote:
Can anyone offer me some opinions and advice?


Don't break the employment laws here. It's not your hagwweon boss who's going to be deported. It's you and the rest of us will get tarred, figuratively speaking, because yet another foreigner got caught doing something stupid.
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Motto



Joined: 05 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's fairly straight forward to get your ARC card updated need to go to immigration with boss and maybe your degree and they'll write the new location on the back. cost is about 50,000 won, but not your concern.

I work 3 locations my hagwon and 2 public schools.
what i suggest doing is roughly calculating your worth, as in how many children a day times what your hagwon charges mines 90,000 won. if it comes in at more than your salary you can better judge the situation.

seams like you have the choice so ask for distance/time and importantly class size , do the maths again so mine = 30 times 30,000 won for afterschool then name your price. mines 50,000 Won per class Very Happy
hope that helps
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Dome Vans
Guest




PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:32 am    Post subject: Re: school shipping me around Reply with quote

CentralCali wrote:
irwinpryce wrote:
I am aware that contracts meen jack here, and directors generally dont stick to them.


W R O N G !

Look, the Labor Board and the courts, if it comes to that, will look to the contract prior to making a decision based on any case you may take to them. The contract does mean something unless there are portions of it that contravene Korean law. In that case, only those portions that contravene law are of no effect.

Want to know who else demands you abide by the contract? YOUR BOSS! He will, of course, demand you follow the portions of the contract that benefit him.

Quote:
I said I wasnt sure and would think about it. I spoke with other english teachers who gave mixed opinion, many saying its normal and to just do it and see how it goes.


It's not normal, it's illegal without permission from Immigration.

Quote:
Can anyone offer me some opinions and advice?


Don't break the employment laws here. It's not your hagwweon boss who's going to be deported. It's you and the rest of us will get tarred, figuratively speaking, because yet another foreigner got caught doing something stupid.


Centralcali, this is the second time you've corrected him with this good advice about the contract. He didn't listen the first time so what can you do?
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:42 am    Post subject: Re: school shipping me around Reply with quote

Dome Vans wrote:
Centralcali, this is the second time you've corrected him with this good advice about the contract. He didn't listen the first time so what can you do?


Dome Vans,

I know. I'm just hoping some other moron doesn't buy into that "contracts in Korea don't mean anything" line of horse apples. It's like those morons I corrected while in the military who were firmly convinced that US military weren't subject to foreign law although they personally knew people from their unit locked up in foreign jails! I asked them to explain that contradiction and got the infamous "deer in the headlights" look in response.

My guess--and guess it is, though I wouldn't put it past the hagweon bosses here--is that hagweon bosses started that malarkey about contracts in Korea. My personal favorite was when the poor sod of a manager at the hagweeon where I worked in Incheon, while grasping at straws to rescue the boss from following both the law and contract said, and I'm not kidding, "Well, the contract does say we'll deduct the pension contribution but it doesn't say we'll put it into the national pension account. We're just holding the money for you guys." The look on his face was priceless when the Canadian dude and I, the American dude, laughed at him. A better expression to see, no doubt, would have been his expression when the boss fired him after losing her case against the Canadian and being forced to pay me what she owed me to avoid yet another round with the Labor Board, the Tax Office, the National Health Office, and even Immigration. Yeah, we pulled out all the stops on that witch. And, I even suggested to the manager she fired that he "file a case at the Labor Board; I'm sure they'll be very interested in why you were defending her just a few weeks ago and are now complaining about her."

And you know what all of the afore-mentioned entities, even that witch, were mostly interested in as far as what we were required to do? Yep, you got it, the contract.
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Flash Ipanema



Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:00 am    Post subject: Re: school shipping me around Reply with quote

CentralCali wrote:
irwinpryce wrote:
I am aware that contracts meen jack here, and directors generally dont stick to them.


W R O N G !

Look, the Labor Board and the courts, if it comes to that, will look to the contract prior to making a decision based on any case you may take to them. The contract does mean something unless there are portions of it that contravene Korean law. In that case, only those portions that contravene law are of no effect.



It's not that no one cares about the contract, it's that the schools don't care. I think that's what people mean when they say contracts don't mean squat.

Yes, you can take your contract to the Labor Board, but even with a judgment in your favor, there are still schools that don't pay up. Or they screw you so close to the end of the contract (or after an illegal firing) that there's not enough time to follow all the avenues to get what you're owed. If contracts were actually followed by the schools, these problems could be avoided.
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:15 am    Post subject: Re: school shipping me around Reply with quote

Flash Ipanema wrote:
It's not that no one cares about the contract, it's that the schools don't care. I think that's what people mean when they say contracts don't mean squat.

Yes, you can take your contract to the Labor Board, but even with a judgment in your favor, there are still schools that don't pay up. Or they screw you so close to the end of the contract (or after an illegal firing) that there's not enough time to follow all the avenues to get what you're owed. If contracts were actually followed by the schools, these problems could be avoided.


One can go to a Korean Consulate overseas and execute an affidavit to assign someone in Korea to represent you in the Labor Board. That person can then go and file the case for you. The only thing about time pressure is if the employee wants everything resolved by midnight of the last day of the contract. That's just not going to happen.

The only practical value a decision by the Labor Board in your favor has is that it shows the judge that the issue has already been examined and the boss has been advised that he or she is in violation of the law. The court can then issue a binding judgment.

Yes, if the schools--actually, the bosses--would follow the laws and the contracts, there would be no problems. And the schools do care about the contracts. They care very much about the employee's contracted obligations. Danged hypocrites they are.
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