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Toju
Joined: 06 Mar 2008
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 Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:02 pm Post subject: 'But' - what's the rule? |
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| Can a grammar nazi please explain exactly the reason as to why we can start a sentence with however but not but? |
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rjrs0510
Joined: 10 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| It is perfectly acceptable to start a sentence with 'but'. It adds emphasis to the contrast. Indeed in modern (good) writing, it is considered bad to start a sentence with 'however'; 'but' is the preferred choice. |
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egrog1717
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| rjrs0510 wrote: |
| It is perfectly acceptable to start a sentence with 'but'. It adds emphasis to the contrast. Indeed in modern (good) writing, it is considered bad to start a sentence with 'however'; 'but' is the preferred choice. |
I disagree, and use however in all of my writings simply because it sounds better...
Because both mean the same thing, one may use either/or |
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BS.Dos.
Joined: 29 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| egrog1717 wrote: |
| rjrs0510 wrote: |
| It is perfectly acceptable to start a sentence with 'but'. It adds emphasis to the contrast. Indeed in modern (good) writing, it is considered bad to start a sentence with 'however'; 'but' is the preferred choice. |
I disagree, and use however in all of my writings simply because it sounds better...
Because both mean the same thing, one may use either/or |
Me too. However is far more eloquent, especially in written English. |
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topas
Joined: 25 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Neither is exactly wrong, but they are totally over-used (particularly in Korean textbooks). Most of the time you can use a comma instead of a full stop to improve flow, or omit "but" altogether. Anything used for emphasis becomes less emphatic the more you say it, in my opinion. |
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wings
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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The reason why teachers always say not to start a sentence with "but" is to avoid things like this:
"but I can't"
You can use "but" if your sentence is complete. For example "But for the money, I would have gone on the trip"
The same is true with 'however'. You can start a sentence with it if the context makes it a complete sentence. |
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egrog1717
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| wings wrote: |
The reason why teachers always say not to start a sentence with "but" is to avoid things like this:
"but I can't"
You can use "but" if your sentence is complete. For example "But for the money, I would have gone on the trip"
The same is true with 'however'. You can start a sentence with it if the context makes it a complete sentence. |
True, and it is often better to tie the "however/but" within the initial sentence, instead of dividing it
IE: "I would have gone to the store, however, it was closed" |
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MollyBloom
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Location: James Joyce's pants
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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But, the sentence content does indeed matter.
However, I prefer to tell younger students not to begin a sentence with "but" because then they start over-using it. |
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mnhnhyouh
Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Location: The Middle Kingdom
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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I have a student called 하지만 the students call "But", I call him "However".
h |
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luvnpeas
Joined: 03 Aug 2006
Location: somewhere i have never travelled
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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Often, it is unnecessary. This is way way super redundant:
| MollyBloom wrote: |
| But, the sentence content does indeed matter. |
Same meaning: "The sentence content matters. "
In that sentence, "but" "does" and "indeed" all serve the same purpose: emphasis.
You can chop it off here too:
| Quote: |
| However, I prefer to tell younger students not to begin a sentence with "but" because then they start over-using it. |
It's more acceptable in American English than British. |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:55 pm Post subject: Re: 'But' - what's the rule? |
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| Toju wrote: |
| Can a grammar nazi please explain exactly the reason as to why we can start a sentence with however but not but? |
But is a conjunction (joins two sentences) whereas However is a conjunctive adverb.
Independent clause, BUT independent clause.
or
Independent clause; however, independent clause.
Independent clause. However, independent clause.
Yes, you can use but at the beginning of a sentence, as long as the thought after it is complete, but I don't tell my students that. When they can use But as a conjunction correctly first, then I'll allow them to use But at the beginning of the sentence. |
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Oreovictim
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| Starting a sentence with a coordinating conjunction (for, and, nor, but, or, yet, so) used to be a no-no. But grammar rules change all the time. Most style books (e.g. The Elements of Style, by Strunk and White) are updated yearly. |
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ytuque
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Location: I drink therefore I am!
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:54 am Post subject: |
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The best explanation about starting a sentence with conjunction that I have seen was in the movie, Finding Forrester! Sean Connery's character explains it very well.
Yes, you can, but you must use it for emphasis and be careful not to overuse it.
Great movie by the way! |
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Ed Provencher
Joined: 15 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:04 am Post subject: |
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I challenge my students to not use these words at the beginning of a sentence: but, and, so, because. When grading essays, I find that they over use them.
It seems that the Korean language has a different rule about the use of 그리고 , 그렇지만, 하지만, 그래서. I think they mean: and, however, but, therefore (respectively).
Are there any Korean grammar experts here who can clarify how Korean rules are different from English rules? |
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