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Dev
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
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nebraska1
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: Judge, Some people just need killin!
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 Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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donning her asbestos suit...
Yes, order your t-shirt now. I guess the one you have been wearing has worn out. Interesting at this exact same time 2 years ago Tibet was in the same situation it is in now. Where was the outrage? On this board it was all ...oh Korean chicks are hot. Americans suck. Where can I buy cheese and the always deep discussions on why western women suck.
Gosh...where were all you folks 2 years ago when the exact same Tibetans were in the exact same position they are now? Guess it is cause celebre'. Now that the Hollwood Glitterati and the Rock Star glitterati has told you what cause to support you have something to do for the summer.
I was sickened to see the young lady carrying the torch in a wheel chair accosted by protesters. This was a shining moment in HER life and white privileged a$$ clowns that didn't give 2 rat's $hits 2 years ago suddenly appear and screw up this woman's moment in the sun.
I have no love for the Chinese communist party but before you get all teary and indignant about Tibet do some research. Tibet under ALL the Dali Lamas was a theocracy. Theocrazy goverments including this one does tend to subjugate women. Han Chinese were run out of Tibet years ago and NOT allowed in Tibet. Tibet was essentially closed to all outsiders. It ain't all unicorns and sunshine and singing Kumbaya. The had a fierce policy of isolationism and like it or not Tibet is part of China. And the pictures of the nice monks beating Han Chinese people and destroying their businesses was so uplifting. 
Um.. and why aren't you protesting horrific treatment of people in Dar-fur...not cool enough any more? Did the rock stars and glitterati move on to Tibet this year? China can silently sit by and show no improvement on their policy in Africa but well I understand "Free Tibet" is so much cooler.
Freaking hypocrites and I mean the sheep that follow the cause that our favorite movie star or rock star likes this year. After the Olympics I am pretty sure the t-shirt will go in the dust bin, back of the closet, or used to play rugby on Saturday. And you will have to watch MTV to find out who to care about next year
N1 |
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pugwall
Joined: 22 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| nebraska1 wrote: |
donning her asbestos suit...
Yes, order your t-shirt now. I guess the one you have been wearing has worn out. Interesting at this exact same time 2 years ago Tibet was in the same situation it is in now. Where was the outrage? On this board it was all ...oh Korean chicks are hot. Americans suck. Where can I buy cheese and the always deep discussions on why western women suck.
Gosh...where were all you folks 2 years ago when the exact same Tibetans were in the exact same position they are now? Guess it is cause celebre'. Now that the Hollwood Glitterati and the Rock Star glitterati has told you what cause to support you have something to do for the summer.
I was sickened to see the young lady carrying the torch in a wheel chair accosted by protesters. This was a shining moment in HER life and white privileged a$$ clowns that didn't give 2 rat's $hits 2 years ago suddenly appear and screw up this woman's moment in the sun.
I have no love for the Chinese communist party but before you get all teary and indignant about Tibet do some research. Tibet under ALL the Dali Lamas was a theocracy. Theocrazy goverments including this one does tend to subjugate women. Han Chinese were run out of Tibet years ago and NOT allowed in Tibet. Tibet was essentially closed to all outsiders. It ain't all unicorns and sunshine and singing Kumbaya. The had a fierce policy of isolationism and like it or not Tibet is part of China. And the pictures of the nice monks beating Han Chinese people and destroying their businesses was so uplifting.
Um.. and why aren't you protesting horrific treatment of people in Dar-fur...not cool enough any more? Did the rock stars and glitterati move on to Tibet this year? China can silently sit by and show no improvement on their policy in Africa but well I understand "Free Tibet" is so much cooler.
Freaking hypocrites and I mean the sheep that follow the cause that our favorite movie star or rock star likes this year. After the Olympics I am pretty sure the t-shirt will go in the dust bin, back of the closet, or used to play rugby on Saturday. And you will have to watch MTV to find out who to care about next year
N1 |
Great post. Anyone who thinks that real change in China will come about by isolating the Chinese and shaming them just after they have moved back in to the international fold is basically stupid. There is a real cold war situation being instigated here. Just stewdent misinformed zealotry and a trendy cause. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| If the cause is human rights, sure. But if the cause is "free tibet" so it can be handed back to an absolute monarchy, well, that's just stupid. That's just shuffling the same two cards. |
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samd
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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Nice posts from everyone but Dev.
Where do I get a pro-China shirt? |
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lowpo
Joined: 01 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| samd wrote: |
Nice posts from everyone but Dev.
Where do I get a pro-China shirt? |
I say let's support China. |
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uberscheisse
Joined: 02 Dec 2003
Location: japan is better than korea.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:06 am Post subject: |
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what is the root of the "tibet is part of china" argument?
last i heard it was some royal wedding that happened during kublai khan's reign.
anyone have anything that has any relevance?
i'm serious here, i'm not trying to be a prat. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| uberscheisse wrote: |
| what is the root of the "tibet is part of china" argument? |
I'm totally inclined to believe Tibet was its own nation and deserves to be returned to such status. However, if people are working for a free tibet, they're working for a tibet merely free of china, not a nation free for its citizens. |
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samd
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| uberscheisse wrote: |
what is the root of the "tibet is part of china" argument?
last i heard it was some royal wedding that happened during kublai khan's reign.
anyone have anything that has any relevance?
i'm serious here, i'm not trying to be a prat. |
My Chinese history professor, HK born, Oxford educated, explained that China has had the same basic borders for two thousand years.
Sure these borders did not remain the same throughout history as a result of wars/invasions etc.
Tibet and Taiwan are both within these borders, therefore the rulers of China, whoever they have been, have always regarded these territories as part of China.
Check out some maps. I can't be bothered finding sources on the net right now, but if you find a random book of Chinese history and look up Tibet, you'll see that the recent struggle for Tibet is a blip on the radar. |
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uberscheisse
Joined: 02 Dec 2003
Location: japan is better than korea.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| samd wrote: |
| uberscheisse wrote: |
what is the root of the "tibet is part of china" argument?
last i heard it was some royal wedding that happened during kublai khan's reign.
anyone have anything that has any relevance?
i'm serious here, i'm not trying to be a prat. |
My Chinese history professor, HK born, Oxford educated, explained that China has had the same basic borders for two thousand years.
Sure these borders did not remain the same throughout history as a result of wars/invasions etc.
Tibet and Taiwan are both within these borders, therefore the rulers of China, whoever they have been, have always regarded these territories as part of China.
Check out some maps. I can't be bothered finding sources on the net right now, but if you find a random book of Chinese history and look up Tibet, you'll see that the recent struggle for Tibet is a blip on the radar. |
from wikipedia:
(and yeah, i know... wikipedia, but this looks hardly like a blip)
A series of kings ruled Tibet from the 7th to the 11th century. At times, Tibetan rule may have extended as far south as Bengal and as far north as Mongolia.[citation needed]
Tibet appeared in an ancient Chinese historical text where it is referred to as fa. The first incident from recorded Tibetan history which is confirmed externally occurred when King Namri Lontsen sent an ambassador to the Chinese court in the early 7th century.[16]
However general, the history of Tibet begins with the rule of Namri Songzen, who first attempts to unify Tibet. His son Songts�n Gampo (604�649 AD) united parts of the Yarlung River Valley and ruled Tibet as a kingdom. In 640 he married Princess Wencheng, the niece of the powerful Chinese emperor Taizong.<--- that's what i'm always told china used as justification for their invasion. |
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spliff
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Dali Who? |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| nebraska1 wrote: |
donning her asbestos suit...
Yes, order your t-shirt now. I guess the one you have been wearing has worn out. Interesting at this exact same time 2 years ago Tibet was in the same situation it is in now. Where was the outrage? On this board it was all ...oh Korean chicks are hot. Americans suck. Where can I buy cheese and the always deep discussions on why western women suck.
Gosh...where were all you folks 2 years ago when the exact same Tibetans were in the exact same position they are now? Guess it is cause celebre'. Now that the Hollwood Glitterati and the Rock Star glitterati has told you what cause to support you have something to do for the summer.
I was sickened to see the young lady carrying the torch in a wheel chair accosted by protesters. This was a shining moment in HER life and white privileged a$$ clowns that didn't give 2 rat's $hits 2 years ago suddenly appear and screw up this woman's moment in the sun.
I have no love for the Chinese communist party but before you get all teary and indignant about Tibet do some research. Tibet under ALL the Dali Lamas was a theocracy. Theocrazy goverments including this one does tend to subjugate women. Han Chinese were run out of Tibet years ago and NOT allowed in Tibet. Tibet was essentially closed to all outsiders. It ain't all unicorns and sunshine and singing Kumbaya. The had a fierce policy of isolationism and like it or not Tibet is part of China. And the pictures of the nice monks beating Han Chinese people and destroying their businesses was so uplifting.
Um.. and why aren't you protesting horrific treatment of people in Dar-fur...not cool enough any more? Did the rock stars and glitterati move on to Tibet this year? China can silently sit by and show no improvement on their policy in Africa but well I understand "Free Tibet" is so much cooler.
Freaking hypocrites and I mean the sheep that follow the cause that our favorite movie star or rock star likes this year. After the Olympics I am pretty sure the t-shirt will go in the dust bin, back of the closet, or used to play rugby on Saturday. And you will have to watch MTV to find out who to care about next year
N1 |
Good point about the not being a fantasy and all that, but I daresay, the people accosting the torchbearers and going berzerk just may be the same people who have been concerned about this thing for awhile. Now they have a chance to come out of the woodwork that they entered after the Beastie Boy Free Tibet concerts in the 90's. Maybe. Not definitely. |
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Chicoloco
Joined: 18 Oct 2006
Location: In the ring.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
donning her asbestos suit...
Yes, order your t-shirt now. I guess the one you have been wearing has worn out. Interesting at this exact same time 2 years ago Tibet was in the same situation it is in now. Where was the outrage? On this board it was all ...oh Korean chicks are hot. Americans suck. Where can I buy cheese and the always deep discussions on why western women suck.
Gosh...where were all you folks 2 years ago when the exact same Tibetans were in the exact same position they are now? Guess it is cause celebre'. Now that the Hollwood Glitterati and the Rock Star glitterati has told you what cause to support you have something to do for the summer.
I was sickened to see the young lady carrying the torch in a wheel chair accosted by protesters. This was a shining moment in HER life and white privileged a$$ clowns that didn't give 2 rat's $hits 2 years ago suddenly appear and screw up this woman's moment in the sun.
I have no love for the Chinese communist party but before you get all teary and indignant about Tibet do some research. Tibet under ALL the Dali Lamas was a theocracy. Theocrazy goverments including this one does tend to subjugate women. Han Chinese were run out of Tibet years ago and NOT allowed in Tibet. Tibet was essentially closed to all outsiders. It ain't all unicorns and sunshine and singing Kumbaya. The had a fierce policy of isolationism and like it or not Tibet is part of China. And the pictures of the nice monks beating Han Chinese people and destroying their businesses was so uplifting.
Um.. and why aren't you protesting horrific treatment of people in Dar-fur...not cool enough any more? Did the rock stars and glitterati move on to Tibet this year? China can silently sit by and show no improvement on their policy in Africa but well I understand "Free Tibet" is so much cooler.
Freaking hypocrites and I mean the sheep that follow the cause that our favorite movie star or rock star likes this year. After the Olympics I am pretty sure the t-shirt will go in the dust bin, back of the closet, or used to play rugby on Saturday. And you will have to watch MTV to find out who to care about next year
N1 |
Damn skippy. |
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pugwall
Joined: 22 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| uberscheisse wrote: |
| samd wrote: |
| uberscheisse wrote: |
what is the root of the "tibet is part of china" argument?
last i heard it was some royal wedding that happened during kublai khan's reign.
anyone have anything that has any relevance?
i'm serious here, i'm not trying to be a prat. |
My Chinese history professor, HK born, Oxford educated, explained that China has had the same basic borders for two thousand years.
Sure these borders did not remain the same throughout history as a result of wars/invasions etc.
Tibet and Taiwan are both within these borders, therefore the rulers of China, whoever they have been, have always regarded these territories as part of China.
Check out some maps. I can't be bothered finding sources on the net right now, but if you find a random book of Chinese history and look up Tibet, you'll see that the recent struggle for Tibet is a blip on the radar. |
from wikipedia:
(and yeah, i know... wikipedia, but this looks hardly like a blip)
A series of kings ruled Tibet from the 7th to the 11th century. At times, Tibetan rule may have extended as far south as Bengal and as far north as Mongolia.[citation needed]
Tibet appeared in an ancient Chinese historical text where it is referred to as fa. The first incident from recorded Tibetan history which is confirmed externally occurred when King Namri Lontsen sent an ambassador to the Chinese court in the early 7th century.[16]
However general, the history of Tibet begins with the rule of Namri Songzen, who first attempts to unify Tibet. His son Songts�n Gampo (604�649 AD) united parts of the Yarlung River Valley and ruled Tibet as a kingdom. In 640 he married Princess Wencheng, the niece of the powerful Chinese emperor Taizong.<--- that's what i'm always told china used as justification for their invasion. |
Kind of but If youy check the Wiki article a lot more came after that. The invasion was more to do with Tibet always being at least umbilically linked to China and revolutionary zeal(Liberation 1949, Tibetan invasion 1950) believing in rescuing from serfdom. However misplaced that may have been and the disgrace of what came after that.
I think its all a little convenient that the Darfur crisis was the en vogue reason to boycott the olympics two months ago and now Tibet has suddenly come into style. I swear a lot of the anti-chinese feeling is due to China becoming economically strong and self reliant and the rest of the world getting scared. |
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spliff
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:16 am Post subject: |
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| You have to understand these issue-huggers..it's all about ME...they don't really care about these issues, it's just how they want themselves to be perceived by others of their group. These people are way boring to talk to, as well. |
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