Korean Job Discussion Forums

[bosintang]

After a couple of days here in Vietnam, I'll never complain about Korean behaviour ever again. Thus far, almost everyone I've had to deal with so far in Vietnam have been completely difficult and even dishonest. It's the most difficult country I've ever traveled in.

I crossed a recently opened border between Laos and Vietnam, and the towns on neither side have had much experience with the rest of the world before. On the Laos side, people watched me with idle curiousity and perhaps a bit of fear, but it was never threatening or overly-intrusive.

The Vietnamese side was a completely different story. After a bizarre wait at a beauracratic border, I had to take a motorcycle ride 25km over a horrendous, but very scenic mountain pass to the nearest town. Passing through villages and then into the town, it was like I was an alien from a different planet who was dropped off from space into the town, full of endless amusement for the locals. Everyone stopped whatever they were doing to say something to me (mostly just "hellos") and show off. The locals didn't know what american dollars were worth, there was nowhere to change money, absolutely noone spoke any English at all, and coffee was an exotic drink that none of the restaurants had available.

At first the attention was amusing, but the novelty of being the alien in town wore off quite quickly. Children followed me making "round-eye" motions at me, and adults stared at me the whole time and laughed and taunted me. The worst was a group of Vietnamese men in the restaurant I was stuck in for the afternoon who were showing off and trying to force rice wine down my throat, that tasted, suspiciously, exactly like soju.

Nobody tired of the staring games for a few hours until finally a Vietnamese soccer game came on tv to take some of the attention away from me. As the day passed, and the locals were getting more drunk and aggressive, and it appeared that Vietnam was losing the game, I wanted to get the hell out of this dustbowl shithole of a town; however I had to wait until the soccer game finished until the mini-bus was leaving for Vinh.

A few hours in an awful town in Vietnam full of awful people, and I immediately missed the friendliness and honesty of the people of Laos. Lets just say that between the two countries, the Vietnamese demonstrate the more masculine qualities towards foreigners. Basically, I saw a glimpse of what traveling around rural China would be like, and I've came to the conclusion that it would be pure insanity to try it without good Chinese skills and infinite patience. Those of you who've done it and succeeded, I salute you, I really do.

[bosintang]

By the way, Hanoi is an awsome city. The Old Quarter in the city is very charming and trendy, and the city has a fraction of the tourists that Bangkok has. It's the most exotic and interesting city I've visited in Asia so far. Too bad it's full of Vietnamese, haha.

[desultude]

[bosintang]

[ed4444]

I have travelled into the depths of Vietnam and China. Actually it is hard to get into the depths of Vietnam because it is too narrow but anyway.

Yes. The Chinese countryside is difficult to navigate through. On the other hand it is also very rewarding. I managed 6 days in a row without seeing one non-east asian face at one stage.

I don't speak Chinese. I just stored pictures of everything I might need on a digital camera and pointed to them when necessary.

[Tiger Beer]

I've always thought of Vietnamese as very similar to Koreans actually.

Except of course the Vietnamese are a 1000 times more cunning.. but work-ethics, education being so important, confucianism, Chinese influence, split country from Cold War politics, imperial aggressive neighbors with a strong distrust of, etc. is all similar.

Korean films and music are all the rage down there as well..

[jajdude]

Where was that bosintang?

Anyway, out of my limited travels, the VNese were definitely the most dishonest! They rip off foreigners proudly. The country has a bad rep for that. Watch your cash there.

Also negotiation works, as I am sure you know. Several times I said "nope" to a charge, let's say of 20 bucks for convenience sake, and walked away, to be called back with, "Ok, 15,.... maybe 10."

(one specific example: A hotel wanted 40 bucks... yeah right, I paid under 20... still expensive for Vn though and they probably laughed about the few bucks profit they made anyway)

VN.... what a weird place.

(no denying the female aspect though.... and good cheap food... also miss cheap nights out drinking and easy socializing with people from wherever, unlike Korea.... VN has its good points.)

[deessell]

OP were you wearing Thai Fisherman Pants? Maybe that's why they were laughing at you!

[bosintang]

[dbee]

The vietnamese take dishonesty, bare-faced lying and price gouging to a whole new level. I've been around most of Asia and I spent a month in vietnam, and I can say that I've never seen anywhere in the world as bad as vietnam. It made India look positively timid. You can get ripped off anywhere, but only in vietnam will they make a point of laughing about it in your face.

It's not just the backpacking crowd that get done over either. Most big businesses won't touch the place with a bargepole. I think it was the hilton group of hotels that set up a new outpost in vietnam, and then had to shut it down after about a year. Simply because everyone who had a hand, had it in their pocket over there. It's a pity really because being one of the world's poorest countries with a large and reasonably educated workforce, it's in a position to make a killing, if it had a little foreign investment.

On the otherhand though, I think it was one of the places I had the fondest memories of. It's an amazing country, and the people are usually great (... as long as money isn't involved in the conversation). The whole country has an enormous energy to it - hanoi is an amazing city. While the principal of paying way over the odd's probably goes against the whole backpacker ethos, the reality is that you're probably losing less than a dollar american.

I really don't buy the whole vietnamese as historical victims story either. From what I saw they couldn't have cared less who they were gouging - Indians, Americans, Europeans, Koreans etc... Every vietnamese person I met said that they love Americans, in part I suspect, because they find it easier to con them.

I remember hearing the story about the guy who went over there with a native vietnamese friend from his home country. They were at some type of market over the tet new year. The announcement over the tanoy speakers went something like this ... 'vietnamese people, to celebrate the wonderous event of tet - let's not try to trick and con each other. Instead, let's all try especially hard to gouge the foreigners'.

[deessell]

The Vietnamese have a special word for backpackers, they call them Taybalo. It means foreigner with bag on back. To the Vietnamese people they are the lowest of the low. They wonder why people from a rich country would travel in such a way, wearing dirty clothes and carrying their possessions around. The majority of Vietnamese meet these such people and they feel no qualms about ripping them off. These taybalow's will usually argue over the smallest amount of money, so it becomes a game to the sellers.

In Vietnam money is everything. To get a good job you have to buy it. A job as an flight attendant with Vietnam Airlines costs about $15,000 US. They want money badly. I am not defending them, just pointing out how life is in Vietnam. If you are stopped by the police it will automatically cost you 50,000 dong ($4.20). If you are have a business and you deal with foreigners, the police will know and they will demand a cut.

It is a country where the average monthly earnings are $50. On the good side you can be assured that the money that they have gouged from us is going to a good cause. They are very carefull with their money and are spending their money on education for their children, which includes English lessons for their children (which is good for us teachers). Vietnamese are very bright students and learn well. There are so many students who are being educated abroad. Maybe the future will be different. Vietnamese (especially Hanoians) are not flash, there is not too much bling bling there.

[Homer]

Some people need to read up on the meaning of travelling...

I agree with desultude you have to live with the travel choices you make.

If you want a non-challenging trip go to some high density western tourist spot.

Vietnam (having been there 3 times now) is not that at all and one read of a lonely planet guide will clue anyone in.

They don't speak English or drink coffee! Oh my..the savages!
They try and share a drink with a complete stranger...my lord...the cruelty of it all...

They stare at a westerner in a small, out of the way, border village/town...well..thats just horrible..call Amnesty International.

Travelling is about new experiences and about getting out of your familiar shell. My wife and I went to Laos and to Tibet a few years ago. We did not expect English or Korean to be heard all round and people not to stare. Thats part of the deal when you travel I think.

[bosintang]

Well, thank you Homer for your, as per usual, wonderful insight and lack of sarcasm that's so characteristic of your posts.

I apologize for not thinking that everwhere I travel to is Utopia.

[Homer]

bosintang,

Sorry if my post insulted you. I was merely responding to your very own sarcastic OP.

If you re-read your OP...you will see you opened yourself to the responses you got by making certain comments.

In your response to my post, you explain yourself clearly. I have two points to discuss however.

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[bosintang]