Korean Job Discussion Forums

[tob55]

Today was the straw day for the camel. I told my co-teacher following my previous class that I have been to this class for the last time as long as three of my students remain in the class. I have been in my public high school for 4 years now and been in education for more than 28 years and never have I been treated with such disrespect and rudeness than the display on three students.

The sad thing is that the Korean co-teacher is very good and they are disrespecting her as well. I am not sure what will be done. I told them they will have to fire me if necessary, because I refuse to go back into the classroom as long as the three students remain. More to follow, off to my next class.

[Bibbitybop]

Good for you.

Have you tried punishing the entire class? I don't know how your high school works, but in middle school, I take away fun activities and prizes, and I also make other students get punishments for other people's behavior. Peer pressure is a bitch in Korea and the other students often keep them in line.

I'll make an entire section of the class "OTL" (an uncomfortable body position) for the mistakes of a student around them. This is unusual and I use it as a last resort.

Since you are foreign, you may want to employ a Korean male teacher, one that loves discipline or one that carries a big stick.

Keep us posted.

[poet13]

Yup, gotta follow this. I have all kinds of nasty psy-games to play with kids who think they are smart. I know one wonderful little exercise that will either give one butt cheek a nasty cramp, or cause one to crap himself.

[tob55]

I really hated to do this, but as I said it was a straw day for the camel. the students were already considered the least motivated class in the high school. They have been passed on by someone and I am sure their home life is probably hell, but their total disregard for authority or rules has caused me to reach a point where reaching them with meaningful English education is just not possible. Other teachers have complained about the students, but no one does anything except make excuses for them.

The look on my co-teacher's face when I told her the news about not returning to the class was one of disbelief and complete frustration. I told her, I understand the rude treatment of foreign educators and have come to expect it to some degree, because children lack the social graces to know exactly how they should behave all the time, but they are treating both myself and the co-teacher like dogs, and that is not cool at all.

When the three students in question are missing for the time they are off from the class it is like being in heaven so to speak, but the minute they walk through the door the class ceases to be a class any longer. Now, some probably feel they could do a better job, and perhaps they could but in all of my entire teaching career, I have never faced young people who were so openly disrespectful of they superiors.

[KYC]

That sucks big time but you are putting them in a difficult position. It's not as if they can ban those students from your class. Their parents would raise hell. I don't have any suggestions..just saying the situation is difficult..for both parties.

[tob55]

Thanks KYC,

My hope is that someone will give these students some instruction, not discipline. It is obvious that someone failed them earlier in their academic experiences which is why they are the way they are now. I realize it is a tough position, and perhaps getting the parents involved in the process is what needs to happen. Actually, the school administration and faculty should not have to bow to the blatant acts of disrespect and open rebellion against the sanctity of good education and good educators. Neither I nor the co-teacher are bad educators. The school is not bad, and the faculty in general is quite accomplished and progressive in helping students learn in the most difficult of times.

However, we now face a group of students from this and other classes that will certainly be progressing to much more deviant behavior if they do not receive some kind of special attention. Honestly, I am not paid to be the school counselor to help them with their mental health issues. It is not me or any other faculty member that has brought on this situation or put anyone in a precarious position, it is the student's themselves who have created the whole concern through their actions.

Asking any professional educator to tolerate the habitual and often antisocial behavior of young people who don't have a clue with regard to proper conduct or behavior is going beyond any of the requirements in mine or any other educator's contract. If they want to fire me because of my observation and refusal to work with students who have no intention of learning and actively seek to prevent others in the classroom from learning, then they will have to fire me. I refuse to work with them until they will to sit quietly and cease disrupting the class.

Even if they would just sleep in class that would be fine, but as I have said their goal is not only to make their statement against learning English, but they do not want anyone else learning either. BTW, other classroom teachers have the same kinds of problems with these students, but not nearly to the extent that the English Department faces.

[mrsquirrel]

Got two classes near that.

One is bad the other is tolerable.

What do I do.

Nothing. Kids are beaten daily by the school and nothing changes. Everyday three or four girls and three or four of the boys are pounded by a stick and made to spend the morning on the floor writing what they did wrong. By the afternoon they are back at it.

I encourage them to run away whenever I can.

[tob55]

The school policy is that we are not allowed to have students leave the classroom. The logic is that there is no place for them to go where they can be supervised. I even suggested that someone put them on garden duty cleaning weeds or doing something that they could do to work off their energy, but that is not an option either. Unfortunately, the male teachers in the school follow the rod of iron rule rather than trying to get through to these students. I am a male, and I have to say hitting never solves anything in the first place, contrary to what some have accused me of thinking.

I wish it could be as easy as saying don't come to class, but this feeds into the disregard for doing what is right. As educators do we not have a responsibility to do what we can to teach? This includes doing something to get through to students who have behavioral disorders. I was an educator in the United States for over 20 years, and worked with murderers in special mental health units and psych wards who have shown me more respect than these students.

I guess it is a situation of what someone can tolerate. My tolerance level is high and I have been able to exercise great restraint throughout my tenure at the high school (BTW technical high school), but there is a time and place when the line must be drawn, which is what I did today. We will see what happens in the next few days.

[KYC]

Well that's not a very good policy but I can see why a technical high school would have such a policy. I've kicked kids out more than I can count. When the Korean teachers stopped coming to the English classes & I was too tired to b!tch about it anymore, I've kicked kids out of class, accidentally threw a marker at a kid (total accident as I was extremely frustrated), & some very bizarre discipline. Beside the marker incident, I was never physical with them. Surprisingly, I've never gotten in trouble for it. I wish I had though...so that I can ask them where was the Korean teacher.

I am curious how this will turn out. I'm in a rural area and the kids are very rude & impolite but I've never refused to teach. As long as they let me kick the bad kids out, I don't mind at all.

[SuperHero]

[Sody]

Tob55, it sounds like you have done your part and the school hasn't done anything to help. You pretty much had no other choice. Time and time again, schools simply do not offer teachers administrative support and then teaching suffers and then the students suffer.

We have this moron grade 2 teacher in my school who is already using the rod as her primary choice of discipline. Grade 2! I can guarantee you the students in her class are gonna be problem students later in life. I sympathize with your plight and I'm glad that you did the right thing. I hope you can resolve this situation!

Sody

[tob55]

Thanks for all of the comments. I have this class first thing in the morning and will go in to see how they are. I haven't decided what I will do, but I am hopeful that some time between when we left the classroom today and tomorrow morning someone will have given them instructions on how they are to behave.

It's kind of cute in a way, but the poor co-teacher was sure this afternoon when I went out to go to the bathroom that I was going to complain to the Principal. She is so worried that she is going to be made to look bad. We have been together for the last three years and I would never violate the professional trust we have between each other as educators by going behind her back to the Principal. I assured her of this and she seemed relieved. She commented that she appreciated the fact that I am thinking of her in this situation as well as myself, but I could do nothing less. This teacher is highly qualified and the best Korean teacher I have worked with in the past 4 years.

Well I will certainly appreciate any positive thoughts our direction tomorrow morning, so thank you you in advance for your thoughtfulness.

[poet13]

I think it's commendable that you think of your co-teacher.
I'm curious though. You mention that you thought she was worried that you were going to complain to the principal when you went to the restroom.
Are you saying you haven't involved the vice-principal or principal at this point? Your class is out of control, through no fault of your own or your co-teachers, and you haven't gone to another power?
If you have, then please excuse this next... Your coworker was professionally irrepsonsible to have not presented the problem to a higher power a long time ago. If she has gone to the higher power, and THEY have done nothing, then find another school. That's a crap situation.

[spliff]

[ed]

spliff,

the term "going postal" refers to how in America occasionally
post office workers would snap one day and come to work with a machine gun and kill everyone.

tob55 what I would do in your situation is I would bring a video camera to class and set it up.

I would explain to the class that there are some trouble makers in class
and later you will call their parents and ask them to come
and watch the video then destroy it immediately afterward.

I think most students will then have no problem with you taping the class.