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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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 Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 9:21 pm Post subject: How the west has helped oppress muslim women |
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I still recall how so many people bought into this idea that somehow invading Afghanistan or toppling Saddam would somehow improve women's rights. And at the time women's groups (including the Afghanistan organisation RAWA) pointed out that, much more likely, it would have very dire consequences for women.
People opposing the war, such as I, were berated for not caring about women's rights in the Middle East. Ho hum.
Here is another little reminder of how conservatives' concern for women's rights is working out for the women they profess so much care and concern for:
Joan Bakewell: For women around the world, life is getting worse
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Barbie doesn't provoke tenderness. She provokes aspirations to spurious glamour... no role model for our times, but no more than much current trash.
Iran, however, sees her as a serious threat. She is, for them, emblematic of all that has gone wrong with womanhood in the west. And they are doing terrible things about it. The hideous treatment of women under the Taliban in Afghanistan is now spilling over into Iran and Iraq. Oppression, abuse, violence and degradation are on the increase. It is one of the most catastrophic outcomes of the war in Iraq that women there are now being driven back to ancient and punitive ways of life.
It wasn't always so. Iraq's 1970 constitution guaranteed women equal rights to education, the ownership of property and the vote. After the first Gulf War, impoverished families stopped educating their girls. By 1987, 75 per cent of women were illiterate. Post Saddam, with the rise of religious groups and tribal leaders, things have got worse. Since 1991, 4000 women have been the victims of honour killings. The law offers mitigation if honour is the reason for the murder.
Only last week, a 17-year-old girl, Rand Abdel-Qader, was murdered by her father because she had an innocent friendship with a British soldier with whom she was delivering relief aid. Her father was arrested and released two months later. His wife, Leila, left him and is now on the run from his vengeance. This is history running backwards, and we seem helpless to stop it.
In the Kurdish north � a semi-autonomous region where the economy flourishes and which the west sees as a liberal haven � there is a surge in the numbers of women burning themselves to death. Since the fall of Saddam, there have been hundreds of such deaths. The human rights minister there admits it is a problem. Women's activists say that a woman a day is now trying to kill herself in Kurdistan. But why is it happening?
When such places return to what's called "normal", they may seem peaceful and settled to outsiders comparing them to the wretched south. But in fact these communities are returning to feudal ways of living where women are the voiceless victims. Moreover, when a people are ravaged by war and invasion, the damaged pride and powerlessness of their men can turn into rage and violence against those they perceive as weak.
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luvnpeas
Joined: 03 Aug 2006
Location: somewhere i have never travelled
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| The same lie exists in how the US chooses alliances. Saudi Arabia and Kuwait are pretty atrocious. Kuwait only recently allowed women to vote, about 10 years after the Persian Gulf War was fought in the name of democracy. Blah blah. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 11:17 am Post subject: |
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The article keeps switching its lenses from Iraq to Iran to Afghanistan without making relevant distinctions. It's like the author thinks they are identical places, or that she thinks WE believe theyr are identical places. Annoying.
Improving rights and welfare for women was never a major concern among anyone who advocated the wars we brought to these countries, nor was it high on the list of bogus justifications to send the military in, or well, anywhere on the list, really. I don't know where the author gets this, really I don't.
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| People opposing the war, such as I, were berated for not caring about women's rights in the Middle East. Ho hum. |
Who spoke such goofiness at you? I've been opposed to war in Iraq from the start also, and no one threw that at me, then or since.
Yes, wars have dire consequences for women. This surprises no one, and it's why feminist groups ALWAYS come out opposed to wars. They should. How could they claim to care about women if they support people who want to drop bombs on them?
Sorry to be the one to tell you, but your title makes no relevant sense in relation to the article you've posted. The West has not oppressed Muslim women. The people living next door to them are doing that, and worst you can say is that we have not liberated them. They are probably going to have to do that for themselves. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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If a traditional culture loosens up for a few decades after a few thousand years of repression and then reverts, I think the problem is a lot closer to home than Washington, D.C.
I also agree with the Bobster. Women's role in society is something that needs to be worked out within the context of each culture, not pushed from the outside. Deliberate cultural imperialism isn't very pretty. |
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Kimbop
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: How the west has helped oppress muslim women |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
I still recall how so many people bought into this idea that somehow invading Afghanistan or toppling Saddam would somehow improve women's rights.
"The hideous treatment of women under the Taliban in Afghanistan is now spilling over into Iran and Iraq. Oppression, abuse, violence and degradation are on the increase." |
Yes, Iraq is now far more dangerous than before the US invasion. But what about Afghanistan? Kids can now fly kites. There's 'Afghan Idol' on tv. Video games, Billiards and pool tables have been legalized. And headscarves are optional for women; not forced through punishment of flogging.
Iraq is now a hell-hole. But how are things getting 'worse' in Iran? In that country people are slowly calling for more rights, while the religious elders continue their suppression. Young women are constantly pushing the rules of the headscarf, although stricter regulations have recently been implemented. Barbie has been banned, but they still sell like hotcakes. Young people want to hold hands in public, and rock music is gaining in popularity.
Your position is that the invasion of Iraq has suppressed women's rights in Iran and Afghanistan, and you back it up with a commentary written by a feminist senior citizen? I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. Personal freedoms are limited in Iraq; granted, not just for women but for everyone, because nobody leaves their house after dark for fear of being shot. Things are better in Afghanistan however.
As for Iran, their society is transofrming radically, much how Korean society transformed in one generation. Iranis now want Barbies. And movies. And maybe even some personal freedoms. This irks Irani religious leaders. |
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luvnpeas
Joined: 03 Aug 2006
Location: somewhere i have never travelled
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 9:59 pm Post subject: Re: How the west has helped oppress muslim women |
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| Kimbop wrote: |
| Your position is that the invasion of Iraq has suppressed women's rights in Iran and Afghanistan, and you back it up with a commentary written by a feminist senior citizen?. |
What the *beep* does being a feminist or a senior citizen have to do with anything? Sorry a porn-engrossed 18-year old linebacker wasn't available to provide the foreign policy analysis you crave. Go dredge up a thoughtful, well-researched politcal discussion on the Michigan Wolverines fan site.
It wouldn't kill you people to acquaint yourselves with the facts. Portraying the "axis of evil" types as oppressors is, in fact, standard American propagnda used to justify military action in the Middle East. There is little demonstrable reduction in oppression of women, however, due to US policies and actions. Often, there is an increase in oppressive practices. |
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anyangoldboy
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 5:03 am Post subject: |
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| I'd pork a muslim woman |
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Kimbop
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 8:50 am Post subject: Re: How the west has helped oppress muslim women |
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| luvnpeas wrote: |
What the *beep* does being a feminist or a senior citizen have to do with anything? Sorry a porn-engrossed 18-year old linebacker wasn't available to provide the foreign policy analysis you crave. Go dredge up a thoughtful, well-researched politcal discussion on the Michigan Wolverines fan site. |
This is my point: the article is hardly 'thoughtful' or 'well-researched', and was written by a partisan left-winger with an agenda. She claims that "the hideous treatment of women under the Taliban in Afghanistan is now spilling over into Iran and Iraq", but gives no evidence aside from honor killings and war (which are rampant across the muslim world), and wife burning as punishment. It is nevertheless true that since 2003, things have gotten MUCH worse for Iraqi women, but it can be argued that things have slowly gotten better for present-day Iran and Afghanistan.
| luvnpeas wrote: |
It wouldn't kill you people to acquaint yourselves with the facts. Portraying the "axis of evil" types as oppressors is, in fact, standard American propagnda used to justify military action in the Middle East. There is little demonstrable reduction in oppression of women, however, due to US policies and actions. Often, there is an increase in oppressive practices. |
Except for in present-day Afghanistan. |
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