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Americans: write your government officials
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iiicalypso

Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Location: is everything

Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 10:51 am Post subject: Americans: write your government officials

I don't know how effective it will be, but I decided today to write to my representative in Congress and let him know my feelings about the US Embassy policy towards foreign teachers in Korea. In the past I have had success writing to officials, and I think that it is a good idea to let our government know what we think.

For other Americans interested in emailing you representative, go to

http://www.house.gov/writerep/

If you are interested, here is a copy of the letter I sent:

Quote:

First of all, let me thank you for the great work you have done for the people of Massachusetts and the United States. I am proud to have you representing me in Congress.

I am writing to you today regarding the State Department policy on ESL teachers in the Republic of Korea. The official policy, to put it briefly, is for the US Embassy to do next to nothing to assist Americans abroad who find themselves being defrauded by unscrupulous business owners who act in part because they know there are no repercussions and no support from the US government. I feel that this policy is unfair and, more importantly, does a great deal to harm our country's reputation abroad.

I take great pride in being an American, and feel a special obligation to represent the values that America represents. In addition I think that Americans abroad have a responsibility to demonstrate the best qualities that we hold. In my experience many barriers between Americans and people of other countries (in my case Korea) can be broken down through individual contact. I feel that the daily interractions that take place between American teachers abroad and locals can do much to bring greater understanding and can do a lot to reduce the tensions and erroneous opinions that have developed.

However, the wonderful friendships and positive experiences that I had during my time in Korea was undercut by the difficulties I encountered with dishonest employers who know that there is little for an individual foreigner to do. It seems to me that it is a bit incongruous for the United States to trumpet the triumphs of freedom elsewhere while failing to protect the rights of American citizens.

I understand that this is a complicated issue, and that there are many factors to be considered. However, every day there are hundreds of de facto American ambassadors in Korea working, knowing that their own government will do nothing to support them should they face difficulty.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Mr. Literal

Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Location: Third rock from the Sun.

Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: Americans: write your government officials

iiicalypso wrote:

Quote:

Since this thread is about letting others know how we feel, I'll take a stab:

With the exception of soldiers, no other U.S. citizens (to my knowledge) are forced to come here. You made the choice to come to a foreign country, to work for a foreign company and to be compensated in a foreign wage. You are, essentially, a guest of the foreign government and are free to leave whenever you chose. Granted, sometimes the treatment of guest ESL teachers may be unwarranted, unethical and downright shameful; but again, no one's blocking you from going home.

Quite frankly, I'm glad the Embassy doesn't get involved. I shudder when I think of all the time, money and energy the U.S. government would have to invest if it decided to get involved. Granted, a fair share of the complaints lodged would probably be legitimate, but I wonder how many resolutions to those problems would be stalled due to the constant whining from Mr. English Teacher that he has just 3 spoons to eat with, not the FOUR that was promised in the contract.

You wrote that "Americans...[are] being defrauded by unscrupulous business owners who act in part because they know there are no repercussions and no support from the US government." You state this as fact, so please provide the proof you have that this lack of support is one of the motivating factors behind the deceit. From what I've both experienced and witnessed, some business owners defraud foreigners and Koreans alike: Governmental support, or the lack thereof, seems to have no bearing whatsoever on the dishonest.

Further, you wrote that "I feel that this policy is unfair and, more importantly, does a great deal to harm our country's reputation abroad." I just don't get this statement. So you're asserting that Koreans are running around bashing our government with the statement "The U.S. and its government really sucks, but only because it fails to support its citizens who voluntarily go abroad"? I hope you really don't feel that a change in policy is going to improve our foreign relations. I wouldn't be suprised if the reverse happened.

Also, you wrote "I take great pride in being an American, and feel a special obligation to represent the values that America represents..." And that you did accomplish: whining, scapegoating, not willing to accept personal responsibility, needing held by the hand when in a scrape. Indeed, those are the values that dominant the American landscape today. So glad to know that you're typical, and so glad to see your advertisement of such.

Thanks. You make me proud.

And, yes, I'm an American who has taught in Korea and who has experienced some of the pitfalls of doing so. But I went to Korea on my own accord, and never once did I expect the government to come along as my nanny.

Come home if you can't take it. After all, you don't need to go halfway around the world to be defrauded by unscrupulous business owners. You do remember Enron, don't you? See how well our government protected the stockholders of the company when it crashed! Some people lost their entire life savings and have yet to (and never will) recover one thin red cent. Meanwhile, Ken Lay walks free.

Why don't you write your congressional representative about that?

darrin312

Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Location: Kyopoville

Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: Americans: write your government officials

Mr. Literal wrote:

Also, you wrote "I take great pride in being an American, and feel a special obligation to represent the values that America represents..." And that you did accomplish: whining, scapegoating, not willing to accept personal responsibility, needing held by the hand when in a scrape. Indeed, those are the values that dominant the American landscape today. So glad to know that you're typical, and so glad to see your advertisement of such.

Thanks. You make me proud.

And, yes, I'm an American who has taught in Korea and who has experienced some of the pitfalls of doing so. But I went to Korea on my own accord, and never once did I expect the government to come along as my nanny.

Come home if you can't take it. After all, you don't need to go halfway around the world to be defrauded by unscrupulous business owners. You do remember Enron, don't you? See how well our government protected the stockholders of the company when it crashed! Some people lost their entire life savings and have yet to (and never will) recover one thin red cent. Meanwhile, Ken Lay walks free.

Why don't you write your congressional representative about that?

Amen to that. Jeeeze it always makes me laugh when Americans whine that the embassy wont get involved with Joe Hogwons troubles. IGO!

Wangja

Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan

Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 3:46 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Americans: write your government officials

"Your government officials".

iiicalypso

Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Location: is everything

Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 4:09 pm Post subject:

I appreciate the points that you make, Mr. Literal. I don't think that the issue is whether or not someone is forced to go to Korea, but rather is the government fulfilling its obligation to protect its citizens. I am pretty sure I will get jumped on for trotting out this old argument, but... I pay plenty of money in taxes, and I think I have the right to expect my government to provide certain services in exchange.

As for whether I am

Quote:

whining, scapegoating, not willing to accept personal responsibility, needing held by the hand when in a scrape. Indeed, those are the values that dominant the American landscape today. So glad to know that you're typical, and so glad to see your advertisement of such.

I don't know. Certainly neither do you, since you don't know what my situation is. I would not presume to call you a rugged cowboy gun toting individualist. I just happen to think that the US embassy ought to provide for all Americans.

Your Enron comment is a red herring.

[/quote]

NearlyKorean

Joined: 15 Mar 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 6:24 pm Post subject:

Quote:

I pay plenty of money in taxes, and I think I have the right to expect my government to provide certain services in exchange. I pay plenty of money in taxes, and I think I have the right to expect my government to provide certain services in exchange.

Really? I have been here six years
and haven't paid a dime in taxes. I can only guess
you make more than the $76,000
(or whatever the current level is).

As far as your point, I won't be wriitng my congressman. The contract is between you and the Korean person you made the contract with. If he/she doesn't follow through on the deal, then there are legal recourses one can take here in Korea. The fact that the foriegners have a hard time in getting justice is not a problem with the American Embassy, but with the Korean judical system.
I don't see how we can expect the Embassy to step in.

I would agree with you in the fact, the American embassy does not do enough for the American citizens. I went to the American Embassy in Seoul to get help about voting one year. This was after, I tried calling the American Embassy. I got absolutely nowhere with the Korean woman trying to help me. After 20 minutes, she got down right rude when I asked to speak to an Amercian staff person....I got the form in 5 minutes, after talking to the native speaker. The American also told me, you know you could have downloaded the form on-line. I explained to her, I tried calling the Embassy to see if that was the case. Her reply was "Yeah, our phone system isn't the best."

If I were in serious trouble, the American Embassy would be the last place on earth I would go for help. I agree with you, these things ought not to be. I applaud you, in your efforts to try to change the system and I hope you do. You do realize, of course, you are wanting a major overall of the Embassy system. I wish you well.

Best regards,

NK

P.S. I would also be interested to hear the response (if any) you get.

Grotto

Joined: 21 Mar 2004

Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 7:35 pm Post subject:

Mr Literal wrote

Quote:

With the exception of soldiers, no other U.S. citizens (to my knowledge) are forced to come here. You made the choice to come to a foreign country, to work for a foreign company and to be compensated in a foreign wage. You are, essentially, a guest of the foreign government and are free to leave whenever you chose. Granted, sometimes the treatment of guest ESL teachers may be unwarranted, unethical and downright shameful; but again, no one's blocking you from going home.

So just what are you trying to say here Mr Literal?

If you get screwed over by a bad hogwan you should tuck tail and run home to mommy? Dont fight things just go home? If you dont like it leave?

If embassies(not just the USA one) got involved and put some preassure on the Korean governtment to police the hogwans you can be assured that the laws and situations would change.

I do think it is shameful that the Korean government does little to change the laws in order to make Korea a better place to work.

Quote:

but I wonder how many resolutions to those problems would be stalled due to the constant whining from Mr. English Teacher that he has just 3 spoons to eat with, not the FOUR that was promised in the contract.

What you said here is simply splitting hairs. Just when does the violation of a contract become relevant? In my books any violation of the contract is a violation. If the Korean hogwan owner is stupid enough not to go out and by that fourth fork then they deserve whatever is coming to them.

It is defeatist attitudes like yours that tick me off. Dont whine just go home. Dont complain if you contract has been violated/broken this is Korea and things like that happen here. BULLCRAP!

Saxiif

Joined: 15 May 2003
Location: Seongnam

Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 9:01 pm Post subject:

What, in theory, could the embassy do to help people who get screwed over by hagwons aside from issueing warnings?

Wangja

Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan

Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 9:21 pm Post subject:

And would they be expected to intervene in every commerical dispute between US citizens and Koreans?

iiicalypso

Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Location: is everything

Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 6:36 am Post subject:

Quote:

What, in theory, could the embassy do to help people who get screwed over by hagwons aside from issueing warnings?

Honestly, I don't know what they can do, but I think that they should offer far more services than they do. Perhaps a liason to guide people through the process would be a good place to begin. I don't think that ESL teachers should expect the ambassador to take them by the hand to the labor board, but I do think that they ought to at least support the rights of their own citizens.

dulouz

Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Uranus

Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 11:55 am Post subject:

Its in the embassies interest to intervene. The amount of US citizens here is considerable so its folly to ignore it. Plenty of teachers go home with a "Korea bad" outlook and tharts not good. I'd like to see the US prohibit E2's for a year just to cool things off.

Mr. Literal

Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Location: Third rock from the Sun.

Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 1:25 pm Post subject:

Grotto wrote:

If you get screwed over by a bad hogwan you should tuck tail and run home to mommy?

Not at all. My message is if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. No one FORCED you to come here. You, of your own free will, CHOSE to come to Korea. Then, when you arrive and things don't go exactly your way, you look toward your "mommy" to protect you from the big, bad Korean business owner bullies. Develop a backbone and fight your own battles.

And please enlighten me with your interpretation of the difference between "running home to Mommy" and sending whining letters to representatives about your mistreatment in a country where you went voluntarily.

Wait, I just got it: One man's embassy is another man's "mommy."

Mr. Literal

Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Location: Third rock from the Sun.

Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 1:42 pm Post subject:

iiicalypso wrote:

Your Enron comment is a red herring.

Sorry, foolish me. I thought the topic was the mistreatment of employees by dishonest business owners.

I guess you're right that Ken Lay, who was one of the many shareholders of Enron stock and who defrauded thousands of his subordinates, doesn't in any way fit into the topic at hand.

Oh, yes, I forget to add another good ole' American value to my prior list: Selfishness.

Not one of you would give a **** about what happens in Korea if you weren't there. And once you're gone, you'll conveniently forget about all the injustice. My, what a nation of self-centered, whiny babies we've become.

No wonder why some many foreigners in Korea are quick to point out the fact that they're not American. I would probably do the same thing. And I'm American.

Wangja

Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan

Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 2:58 pm Post subject:

dulouz wrote:

Its in the embassies interest to intervene. The amount of US citizens here is considerable so its folly to ignore it. Plenty of teachers go home with a "Korea bad" outlook and tharts not good. I'd like to see the US prohibit E2's for a year just to cool things off.

Do you mean prohibit E2 visas in USA?

Homer
Guest

Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 3:17 pm Post subject:

Quote:

I pay plenty of money in taxes, and I think I have the right to expect my government to provide certain services in exchange.

As stated before...unless you are earning higher then the cut off income level you are not paying taxes in the US.

Also, what government would get involved in another country's internal private business sector?

You come here and sign a contract between you and the school. The US government has no juristiction here. They can protect you in case of war or such other events. Work relations are an internal manner. I do not see on what basis the US government could intervene unless you were in dire straits (war, illegal detention...).

As for the US prohibiting E-2's...this is not really up to them now is it? The E-2 is a Korean sponsored work visa (sponsored by a private sector employer). US immigration does not grant or issue this visa. The Korean government does. Hence, how would the US be able to stop E-2's?
Refuse to issue passeports to all US citizens for a year?
Prevent any US citizen from going to Korea for a year?
Bar teachers from boarding planes to Korea?

Quote:

I do think that they ought to at least support the rights of their own citizens

A fair sentiment but this applies to US citizens in the US. When you enter a foreign country as a foreign worker you agree to abide by this country's laws for the duration of your stay. Your rights in essence are dictated by this country's laws.

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