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DaeguKid
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Location: Daegu
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 Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 2:09 am Post subject: To the Mods... |
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As you know a young man died in Daegu last week. And as this site goes, people discuss it. But as you also know it takes one clown for the thread to go downhill.
Right now things are happening in order to try to get a thourough investigation done. Support and signatures are needed right now to get this ball rolling.
How do you handle this? You delete all the threads that pertain to the topic at hand because of the few jackasses that exist on this site. I know you are not paid to do what you do, but Dave is and I have a feeling Dave is doing alright financially with the hits this site gets.
So if you want to walk around with a big imaginary eraser which you feel solves the problem, why don't you try something a little bit different next time.....
Put yourself in the shoes of the mother, family and friends that knew Mike. Wonder how they would react to the a-holes here and their comments. About trying to get support for something that needs to be done only to have it erased. How would you like it?
I'm sure you deal with alot of whiners complaining about a next to nothing comment another poster made. I can understand that. Its like your almost an elemantary school teacher at times I would guess....BUT when it comes to death and loved ones there is no fine line here. Anyone on this site wants to be knob and cross that line should be banned along with their contribution to the thread.
Mods, once again save the "we don't get paid" line please. Talk to your "employer" about that. Do the job you have been asked and taken on to do and start tightening the noose on the clowns here who choose to make dumb ass comments about the death of loved ones.
DK |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 2:34 am Post subject: Re: To the Mods... |
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| DaeguKid wrote: |
As you know a young man died in Daegu last week. And as this site goes, people discuss it. But as you also know it takes one clown for the thread to go downhill.
Right now things are happening in order to try to get a thourough investigation done. Support and signatures are needed right now to get this ball rolling.
How do you handle this? You delete all the threads that pertain to the topic at hand because of the few jackasses that exist on this site. I know you are not paid to do what you do, but Dave is and I have a feeling Dave is doing alright financially with the hits this site gets.
So if you want to walk around with a big imaginary eraser which you feel solves the problem, why don't you try something a little bit different next time.....
Put yourself in the shoes of the mother, family and friends that knew Mike. Wonder how they would react to the a-holes here and their comments. About trying to get support for something that needs to be done only to have it erased. How would you like it?
I'm sure you deal with alot of whiners complaining about a next to nothing comment another poster made. I can understand that. Its like your almost an elemantary school teacher at times I would guess....BUT when it comes to death and loved ones there is no fine line here. Anyone on this site wants to be knob and cross that line should be banned along with their contribution to the thread.
Mods, once again save the "we don't get paid" line please. Talk to your "employer" about that. Do the job you have been asked and taken on to do and start tightening the noose on the clowns here who choose to make dumb ass comments about the death of loved ones.
DK |
Maybe next time check before posting. The main thread is still up. There is another thread in current events.
As for the other threads, there is a long standing policy of either deleting or merging duplicate topics. |
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Poktanju
Mod Team
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| I'm also confused as to why he chose to grandstand publicly to us about this, when a PM would've been more appropriate and direct. Looks like his sincerity over the Mike White tragedy is only trumped by his interest in scoring some cyber rep in front of everyone. Wrong issue to sanctimoniously showboat in front of users. Try some tact, next time. |
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DaeguKid
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| Poktanju wrote: |
| I'm also confused as to why he chose to grandstand publicly to us about this, when a PM would've been more appropriate and direct. |
Because im calling the Mods out. I think as moderators you should be ashamed of how you handled this. Furthermore, I am not in the mood for a one on one bureaucratic answer from the mods. Another poster told me that they tried that method only to get the "we don't get paid" reply as well as some other crap.
And to the Urban...yeah, the main thread is still there, but did you see where it went? Talk of anal rape!? WTF!? Good job Mods...good job! Getting the point?
Was there a warning issued out to the losers? Even if there was, it would have been in the form of a PM. Why don't you try getting on there and posting that people should cool it a little or accounts would be deleted. Making a statement publicly gets more done than one privately.
I have said my bit, what is done is done. I guess all I can ask for is that the Mods here step up there game much better than what I have witnessed. If I am alone on this feeling so be it. Still doesn't change how I feel.
DK |
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cdninkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 3:28 am Post subject: |
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| Moderators don't get paid? Out of so many volunteering opportunities, I'm curious as to why people choose moderating this site (I don't think there's anything wrong with it and I'm not judging- just curious). |
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DaeguKid
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| Poktanju wrote: |
| I'm also confused as to why he chose to grandstand publicly to us about this, when a PM would've been more appropriate and direct. Looks like his sincerity over the Mike White tragedy is only trumped by his interest in scoring some cyber rep in front of everyone. Wrong issue to sanctimoniously showboat in front of users. Try some tact, next time. |
interest in scoring some cyber rep...show boat? Are you baked? What the hell are you on about!? Your post above answered many questions about how serious you take your position. by the way, nice edit.
DK |
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Orchidelirium
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 6:44 am Post subject: |
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| DaeguKid wrote: |
| Poktanju wrote: |
| I'm also confused as to why he chose to grandstand publicly to us about this, when a PM would've been more appropriate and direct. |
Because im calling the Mods out. I think as moderators you should be ashamed of how you handled this. Furthermore, I am not in the mood for a one on one bureaucratic answer from the mods. Another poster told me that they tried that method only to get the "we don't get paid" reply as well as some other crap.
And to the Urban...yeah, the main thread is still there, but did you see where it went? Talk of anal rape!? WTF!? Good job Mods...good job! Getting the point?
Was there a warning issued out to the losers? Even if there was, it would have been in the form of a PM. Why don't you try getting on there and posting that people should cool it a little or accounts would be deleted. Making a statement publicly gets more done than one privately.
I have said my bit, what is done is done. I guess all I can ask for is that the Mods here step up there game much better than what I have witnessed. If I am alone on this feeling so be it. Still doesn't change how I feel.
DK |
No, you're not alone. The moderators on this forum have a barely veiled personal bias when it comes to editing or enforcing the terms of service. Sometimes, there is dramatic backlash against posters whose ideas they do not like, and sometimes they support and turn a blind eye to opinions that parallel their own -- I'm beginning to think they have the same level of maturity as the offending posters...
Suffice it to say that they have no sense of propriety, equity, reason, or larger consequences, which is why the tragic death of a minor can degenerate into jokes about anal rape, but expatriate experiences of everyday racism are censored... |
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Enrico Palazzo
Mod Team
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| Orchidelirium wrote: |
| DaeguKid wrote: |
| Poktanju wrote: |
| I'm also confused as to why he chose to grandstand publicly to us about this, when a PM would've been more appropriate and direct. |
Because im calling the Mods out. I think as moderators you should be ashamed of how you handled this. Furthermore, I am not in the mood for a one on one bureaucratic answer from the mods. Another poster told me that they tried that method only to get the "we don't get paid" reply as well as some other crap.
And to the Urban...yeah, the main thread is still there, but did you see where it went? Talk of anal rape!? WTF!? Good job Mods...good job! Getting the point?
Was there a warning issued out to the losers? Even if there was, it would have been in the form of a PM. Why don't you try getting on there and posting that people should cool it a little or accounts would be deleted. Making a statement publicly gets more done than one privately.
I have said my bit, what is done is done. I guess all I can ask for is that the Mods here step up there game much better than what I have witnessed. If I am alone on this feeling so be it. Still doesn't change how I feel.
DK |
No, you're not alone. The moderators on this forum have a barely veiled personal bias when it comes to editing or enforcing the terms of service. Sometimes, there is dramatic backlash against posters whose ideas they do not like, and sometimes they support and turn a blind eye to opinions that parallel their own -- I'm beginning to think they have the same level of maturity as the offending posters...
Suffice it to say that they have no sense of propriety, equity, reason, or larger consequences, which is why the tragic death of a minor can degenerate into jokes about anal rape, but expatriate experiences of everyday racism are censored... |
So you purport to know the moderators, how they think, and you've become their judge, jury, and executioner. Moderators are providing a service to other posters. As to why I do it, because I am a poster, and I am giving back to a site that has given me many useful things. It does have some bad things and good things because of the community that posts.
As far as the thread about the minor, I don't know if the posters were joking about the assault, though it seemed tasteless. The posters in question should have said that the victim should be inspected for all forms of assault.
Those posts were removed from the thread, and it was cleaned up. Frankly, you should not assume that we do not care about what happened to the minor in question. He was a very decent kid, and you shouldn't use his memory to attack moderators who have a hard job.
We have thousands and thousands of ESLers who are supposed to be adults, professionals, but, alas, many of them are not acting like professionals, and we do our best.
As we said a 1000 times, send us PMs. You are acting as if we are supposed to be some super police force that can see every infraction.
We also have to try to be judicious and not overzealous. People naturally complain. If more posters would post in a more mature way worth of men and women their age, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.
I am sure many posters know the moderators are doing what they can and some choose to be understanding and try to help out by sending PMs or reports while others choose to blast moderators. How about helping out instead of attacking and finger pointing?
Thanks.. |
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freshking
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| I appreciate the work that the mods did to clean up the forementioned thread. That being said, I don't think Daegu Kid is trying to grandstand. There is a line that was crossed in the Mike White thread that was also crossed in the thread about Bill Kapoun recently. If this site is going to be used by the majority of English teachers who are mentally stable, then I think the bad apples have to be weeded out. I know that is easier said than done. Someone who is banned can quickly reappear with a different user name. What can be done? Can changes be made in the registration process for this site? Sorry, I'm not much of a techie, so I don't have the answers. I think this is a problem that needs to be addressed though, because Dave's ESL Cafe has really become spoiled by a small number of posters. Suggestions anyone? |
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Orchidelirium
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| As we said a 1000 times, send us PMs. |
The last poster asked for a suggestion: how about the TOS being enforced with some sense of equity and non-bias.
I also received an inappropriate and childish answer about a PM that I sent in reference to the sexist attacks in another thread (from the moderater Canuckistan) -- the answer I got was something to the effect that there were more males than females on the site, and that if I were to "wag my finger" at them they'd get worse. The thread in question has now degenerated into the male posters making come on to females, slights on appearance, and one poster blatently saying that he "hates western women." Now, if one were to insert any other group after the word "hates" they would have been banned, not to mention the implication by the moderator that the sexism evidenced is typical male behavior...
Threads are allowed to degerate by mods, even AFTER reporting them, and that's why no one sends you PMs.
Clearly, there isn't really any TOS here, or at least one enforced with any regularity, particularly as it concerns people who are vulnerable (misogynist males vs. anonymous women on the internet is a no-brainer, so is the tragic death of a minor and anal rape jokes: the mods are asking for a situation, by letting this situation run riot). |
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bogey666
Joined: 17 Mar 2008
Location: Korea, the ass free zone
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| Orchidelirium wrote: |
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| As we said a 1000 times, send us PMs. |
The last poster asked for a suggestion: how about the TOS being enforced with some sense of equity and non-bias.
I also received an inappropriate and childish answer about a PM that I sent in reference to the sexist attacks in another thread (from the moderater Canuckistan) -- the answer I got was something to the effect that there were more males than females on the site, and that if I were to "wag my finger" at them they'd get worse. The thread in question has now degenerated into the male posters making come on to females, slights on appearance, and one poster blatently saying that he "hates western women." Now, if one were to insert any other group after the word "hates" they would have been banned, not to mention the implication by the moderator that the sexism evidenced is typical male behavior...
Threads are allowed to degerate by mods, even AFTER reporting them, and that's why no one sends you PMs.
Clearly, there isn't really any TOS here, or at least one enforced with any regularity, particularly as it concerns people who are vulnerable (misogynist males vs. anonymous women on the internet is a no-brainer, so is the tragic death of a minor and anal rape jokes: the mods are asking for a situation, by letting this situation run riot). |
you moderators have asked for it.. now you have it.
This woman is a raving fucking lunatic shrew who has very clear ideas about what is and isn't sexist, racist, vulnerable, and racist.
and that's almost EVERYTHING that she doesn't agree with.
She is a product of the fear of lawsuits over complete BS in the US and a product of "sensitivity training" and other such nonsense.
Now that you have encouraged and fed the proverbial troll, expect your PM boxes to be stuffed to the rims for months. (and every day)
p.s maybe we already have a TOS at work here, but the troll simply doesn't like it. |
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Imbroglio
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: Behind the wheel of a large automobile
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| Orchidelirium wrote: |
| Quote: |
| As we said a 1000 times, send us PMs. |
The last poster asked for a suggestion: how about the TOS being enforced with some sense of equity and non-bias.
I also received an inappropriate and childish answer about a PM that I sent in reference to the sexist attacks in another thread (from the moderater Canuckistan) -- the answer I got was something to the effect that there were more males than females on the site, and that if I were to "wag my finger" at them they'd get worse. The thread in question has now degenerated into the male posters making come on to females, slights on appearance, and one poster blatently saying that he "hates western women." Now, if one were to insert any other group after the word "hates" they would have been banned, not to mention the implication by the moderator that the sexism evidenced is typical male behavior...
Threads are allowed to degerate by mods, even AFTER reporting them, and that's why no one sends you PMs.
Clearly, there isn't really any TOS here, or at least one enforced with any regularity, particularly as it concerns people who are vulnerable (misogynist males vs. anonymous women on the internet is a no-brainer, so is the tragic death of a minor and anal rape jokes: the mods are asking for a situation, by letting this situation run riot). |
You could try skipping over the offensive posts and do that little thing that most people do called IGNORE, it works well.  |
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madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| Orchidelirium wrote: |
| Threads are allowed to degerate by mods, even AFTER reporting them, and that's why no one sends you PMs. |
Exactly. I've found that the mods don't seem to participate much in the forums and do the least work necessary. Sometimes I wonder why they delete what they do. To use the the recent thread as an example, I wrote on page 3 "I don't know why some of you guys seemed so obsessed with anal rape, but I don't think it is appropriate to keep bring up in this thread." The mods deleted my post and allowed all the talk to continue. Why?
RJjr posts images from an Asian PORN site, continually plugged it, and he doesn't get banned.
Jetrash trolled for weeks with irrational, racist glibberish with literally dozens of his posts removed by the mods. At one point, he bragged that he was solely posting to start flame wars and get a rise out of people, yet he is not banned.
Every other day, some clown goes on a rant about how Koreans are nothing more than racist "peasants," yet nothing is done.
If the mods just enforced the TOS, they could clean up this site, but inexplicably haven't done anything. I understand that the mods are volunteers and have their own lives. I completely appreciate that and the work they do. I think if they are overwhelmed, then Dave Sperling needs to step up and hire more mods because the inmates control the aslyum right now. Beyond the mods or members, Sperling is the one with the most incentive to make this site work, but he seems strangely absent. I don't blame the mods for what's been going on. Rather, I would like to hear Mr. Sperling's take on the current dysfunctional nature of the forums, as I would like to see this site continue to succeed. |
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madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| Imbroglio wrote: |
| You could try skipping over the offensive posts and do that little thing that most people do called IGNORE, it works well. |
The problem is that the signal-to-noise ratio increases, causing many of the worthwhile posters to leave. Then the cycle continues, until the Cafe turns into a barren wasteland of whining racists, apologists, and flame wars. |
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RJjr
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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The mods are doing fine, especially considering they're providing their services for free. Relax folks, it's just an internet website. Besides, in the thread that Madoka and I trashed, the mods had me change my tasteless cartoon octopus avatar and deleted Madoka's "anal rape fantasy" and "Asian porn" comments. It's not like they're sleeping on the job.
I feel like they keep a good balance of letting the good times roll without things getting too crazy. |
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