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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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 Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:06 pm Post subject: Innocent Terror Detainee Says U.S. Tortured Him |
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Tells 60 Minutes He Was Held Underwater, Shocked, And Suspended From the Ceiling
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At the age of 19, Murat Kurnaz vanished into America's shadow prison system in the war on terror. He was from Germany, traveling in Pakistan, and was picked up three months after 9/11. But there seemed to be ample evidence that Kurnaz was an innocent man with no connection to terrorism. The FBI thought so, U.S. intelligence thought so, and German intelligence agreed. But once he was picked up, Kurnaz found himself in a prison system that required no evidence and answered to no one.
The story Kurnaz told 60 Minutes correspondent Scott Pelley is a rare look inside that clandestine system of justice, where the government's own secret files reveal that an innocent man lost his liberty, his dignity, his identity, and ultimately five years of his life.
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Just got done watching the video. Sickening. I would like to see the torture apologists try and defend this one.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/28/60minutes/main3976928.shtml |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| He's still alive isn't he? Can't say the same for Daniel Pearl. |
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yawarakaijin
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
| He's still alive isn't he? Can't say the same for Daniel Pearl. |
So, as long as the innocent man wasn't killed.....
Troll or ass. Take your pic. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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I'm just saying, why not posts on Al Quaeda's treatment of their prisoners? I'm pretty sure Al Quaeda and Islamofascists have captured innocents and done FAR much worse to them.
Why not put the microscope on THEIR treatment of their prisoners. Shouldn't they be held to the same standard too? |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
| He's still alive isn't he? Can't say the same for Daniel Pearl. |
My deepest condolences to the family of Daniel Pearl and his very kind wife, but torture is torture as McCain would say. I met an Egyptian man who was beat so badly and held for months and months. He ended up getting a glass eye. I hope that is not true, but I did see the glass eye.
You must admit, if that is true, it's horrible. He said he got a lot of financial compensation, but I would rather have my eye rather than the compensation. Whether Al Qaeda, Syria, the U.S., or Canada tortures someone innocent or guilty does it make it better who is putting out cigarettes on you or beating the living daylights out of you?
Just a thought.. |
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yawarakaijin
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
I'm just saying, why not posts on Al Quaeda's treatment of their prisoners? I'm pretty sure Al Quaeda and Islamofascists have captured innocents and done FAR much worse to them.
Why not put the microscope on THEIR treatment of their prisoners. Shouldn't they be held to the same standard too? |
No, they shouldn't be held to the same standard, they are murderous thugs. We are not supposed to be anything like them. We have lost this "war" the minute we start to even approach their standards.
Secondly, who the hell needs a microscope? We know what THEY are. We have numerous beheadings on the internet to show us what THEY are. The question remains, what will become of us in order to protect ourselves from them. And when we have won the war on terror  will we ever be able to get back to the place we were before? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
I'm just saying, why not posts on Al Quaeda's treatment of their prisoners? I'm pretty sure Al Quaeda and Islamofascists have captured innocents and done FAR much worse to them.
Why not put the microscope on THEIR treatment of their prisoners. Shouldn't they be held to the same standard too? |
Al Qaeda doesn't have the rule of law.
You don't get it: what's happening in America re: War on Terror frustrates the majority of Americans. But Al Qaeda is a small, cellular, pseudo-fascist organization. The press cannot pressure Al Qaeda into reform. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:29 am Post subject: ... |
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| Quote: |
| Why not put the microscope on THEIR treatment of their prisoners. Shouldn't they be held to the same standard too? |
So, wait, you want Al Quaeda held to this standard or you think it's ok for the US to stoop to Al Quaeda's standard? |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:37 am Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Why not put the microscope on THEIR treatment of their prisoners. Shouldn't they be held to the same standard too? |
So, wait, you want Al Quaeda held to this standard or you think it's ok for the US to stoop to Al Quaeda's standard? |
It almost sounded like "Why should we care if they do it, too". However, we are talking about human beings, and if you imitate Al Qaeda then you've lost the war if you are fighting a war on terror by using terror.
I somehow can't help think what happened to Maher Arrar when the US shipped him to Syria knowing they would use torture. People do know the US Government has used torture or outsourced it, that's why I wouldn't past the training of the officers of the SOA for all kinds of misdeeds in Central America. Some people believe torture is necessary to save American lives. What do you think about that argument? |
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stillnotking
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Location: Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
I'm just saying, why not posts on Al Quaeda's treatment of their prisoners? I'm pretty sure Al Quaeda and Islamofascists have captured innocents and done FAR much worse to them.
Why not put the microscope on THEIR treatment of their prisoners. Shouldn't they be held to the same standard too? |
Al Qaeda doesn't have the rule of law.
You don't get it: what's happening in America re: War on Terror frustrates the majority of Americans. But Al Qaeda is a small, cellular, pseudo-fascist organization. The press cannot pressure Al Qaeda into reform. |
Neither can they pressure America into reform, by the looks of things. The rule of law is a fragile thing at the best of times, and these are not the best of times. |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 8:45 pm Post subject: Guant�namo ex-detainee tells Congress of abuse |
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In a landmark congression-al hearing Tuesday, former Guant�namo detainee Murat Kurnaz described abuses he said he endured while in US custody � among them electric shock, simulated drowning, and days spent chained by his arms to the ceiling of an airplane hangar.
Lawmakers were also provided with recently declassified reports, which show that US and German intelligence agencies had determined as early as 2002 that Mr. Kurnaz had no known links to terrorism. Still, he was held for four more years.
Kurnaz's testimony to Congress, via videolink, as well as a report released Wednesday showing that FBI agents were troubled by the harsh interrogations at Guant�namo, are the latest signs of growing concerns in the United States about the prison camp, which has become emblematic of what many around the world see as American excess in the war on terrorism.
Nowhere was the disquiet more evident than in lawmakers' responses. Politicians on both sides of the aisle, who had once accepted Pentagon assurances that those held at Guant�namo were the "worst of the worst," reacted with outrage and regret to Kurnaz's statements, which were broadcast from his hometown of Bremen, Germany.
Rep. William Delahunt (D) of Massachusetts, who chaired the hearing, said Kurnaz's account � denied by Pentagon officials � was something "every patriotic American should find repugnant."
Even Dana Rohrabacher, a stalwart Republican and defender of the Guant�namo prison system, voiced concern, saying, "It could be after seeing those buildings go down and 3,000 of our people were slaughtered, we moved so quickly that some mistakes were made.... The documents seem to indicate mistakes were made in this case."
Among the documents given to lawmakers is a May 2003 report from Brittain Mallow, the commanding general at the time of the Criminal Investigation Task Force, a Pentagon intelligence unit that interrogates and collects information on detainees. It notes, "CITF is not aware of evidence that Kurnaz was or is a member of al-Qaida."
Another memo, from German intelligence agents who interrogated Kurnaz under CIA supervision in 2002, reads, "USA considers Murat Kurnaz's innocence to be proven."
'Innocent' but not set free
The papers are only the latest batch to surface in Kurnaz's case, where the record clearly shows that he was repeatedly designated an enemy combatant despite evidence of his innocence.
Much of the testimony given by Kurnaz, the first former Guant�namo detainee to appear before Congress, focused on his treatment at Kandahar Air Base in Afghanistan, where he was taken after being arrested in Pakistan in December 2001. While there, he said was subjected to "water treatment," which involved having his head dunked in a water-filled bucket. "They stick my head in the water and at the same time they punched me in the stomach so I had to inhale the water," he said, using English he picked up in detention.
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