Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Easter Clark]

In my public high school, I've got six tables--two pushed together on each row, with each row having 12-14 students. I have recently come to the conclusion that the majority of the students this year just aren't mature enough for this kind of seating arrangement--their level and motivation is the lowest I've ever encountered!

The seating arrangement encourages group and pair work, which is great in an ideal class. However, many of the younger students use the arrangement to their advantage in that they can chat away to their friends more easily than listening to the teacher or paying attention in class.

So I am in the process of requesting desks for the classroom and arranging it like a typical Korean classroom--40 desks facing the front. When I assign a speaking activity they can turn to their partner or the person behind them. I'm sure that their behavior (and their grades) will improve.

Mind you not all of my classes are problematic but there are enough problems that I have decided to alter the seating arrangement. btw, I tried using the horseshoe last year and that failed miserably. Also, when I tried separating the tables into six "teams," I had less-than-favorable results, i.e. two or three tables were into it while the others decided it was easier to goof off than to try to compete with the other tables. So I feel like I've tried everything except traditional seating.

I know there is no substitute for a good lesson, but I can teach the most interesting lesson in the world and still have troublemakers that aren't making an effort because it's more fun / easier to talk to their buddies than to look sideways to the front of the class. I'm in a vocational high school. I'm also aware that in a team-teaching class it is the responsibility of both teachers to ensure discipline, but with this group we tend to spend so much time on discipline and trying to get the kids' attention that it takes away from instruction.

How are the seats/tables arranged in your classroom? Do you think that arrangement in the most effective for your students and why?

[icicle]

Last year in a public Middle school I started the year with the seating arrangment that you want to change to ... And then partway through the year moved to a new Language lab which put the students into groups of 6 around big tables (I think what you are describing as having now) ...

Overall I found that the groups of 6 worked much better overall than the traditional korean classroom layout of pairs of tables facing the front ...

But we also did not give students the option to choose their own seats / groups ... In consulation with the co-teacher we put a mix of high / middle / low ability in English students into each group ... and did not put problematic students together ... This did make a difference ... Though not perfect ... The mix of abilities meant that students could work together on tasks ... with students learning from each other .... and each group did have a student who could explain to the others if necessary ...

I am now in a hagwon rather than a public school with the smaller class sizes ... But I think that if I ever went back into a public school I would at least try for the small group approach ... because to me it did seem more effective as a strategy in the very big class sizes which are an inherent part of Korean public schools ...

Icicle

[Yu_Bum_suk]

I travel from class to class, most of which have three long rows of pairs upon my arrival. Occaisionally I'll move them into groups for something. Groups only work when the lesson isn't teacher-focused. While, for language learning, a good part if not most of the lesson shouldn't be teacher-focused, the fact of the matter is that when you've got 25-40, that's the only way a lot of teaching aims are going to work.

[Easter Clark]

I agree that a teacher-centered classroom is far from ideal, especially in an EFL setting. However, I find that my students are most focused during drills and listening activities. Oftentimes, when I assign a speaking activity, what I get is maybe 60% of the class doing the assignment while the other 40% sees this as time to talk about the latest Big Bang song or who's dating whom. That is, until I walk around--when I'm in close proximity they start doing the exercise from the beginning, thinking they're fooling me!

I have to assign a grade to each student at the end of the term, so I have them seated in ascending order based on their student number. This makes it easy to pick out who's doing a good job and gets high marks for the day. I'd like to arrange them according to ability, as icicle suggests, but that would make for a difficult time when I take down their marks. Having them seated by student number also makes it easier to identify troublemakers. However, occasionally this system pairs some troublesome friends together, in which case I have to move some students. But this is the most organized manner of seating that I've been able to come up with.

fwiw, I'm going to have to bite the bullet and keep things the way they are because I was informed this morning that we have neither the extra desks nor the budget to buy new ones. I was given the choice to move from classroom to classroom (where having desks is certain; a projector is uncertain) or staying where I'm at.

Is anyone happy using the traditional seating arrangement? Or do you have control over how your students are seated?

[jackson7]

All the seats are arranged in a circle FACING OUT. I then play music and my students walk in a counter-clockwise direction until I randomly press "stop." At this point it is crucial that my little 20-somethings sit down, for I have oh-so-craftily shorted them a seat. I then remove another and continue...

No, seriously, I have no control over it and I usually gaze upon about 6-7 rows 4-5 students deep. Not the ideal arrangement, but like other posters said, there's no power over that for me.

[Easter Clark]

So none of the teachers on this board have considered the implications of seating arrangements in their own classrooms? No arguments for or against one or the other? I guess either no one has any control over it or it just isn't important enough to merit discussion...at the very least it would be nice to know how things are set up at other schools. But then again Dave's isn't the best place to come if you actually want to talk about improving one's teaching.

Next time I'll try posting something about how a kid has shat on his desk and see what I should've done about it!

[Draz]

I have the three double rows setup. When we do group work I make them move the desks into groups facing each other. When we are done we move them back.

[WoBW]

I would dearly love to change my seating arrangement to have three groups of four students, with each group having two pairs of desks facing each other. The other foreign teachers at my school have this and it seems to work well.

Unfortunately, I have the smallest classroom because I am the newest teacher. I've tried shifting desks around and I can't make it fit in any practical way.

I've also tried a U shape arrangement. Nope. Won't fit in the room. So, I'm stuck with four rows of three desks each. At least they're all facing the front, but I can't get to the students sitting nearest the wall to look at their work or give them individual help. It's frustrating sometimes.

[teachergirltoo]

I will try my best to describe what I have, because i find it promotes a student centred learning environment but also allows the teacher to monitor student behaviour. I have eight groups of five. Each group has one traditional student desk that is allowed to have a dictionary set on top of it. The other four boys (it's an all male high school) must sit on chairs. The four chairs must make a square, two on each side in front of the one desk in the group. The chair-boys must use their English textbooks as writing tablets. Groups of five are small enough so that it generally doesn't allow for any student in a group to be lazy and let the others do the work, but also large enough to have enough minds to share information. During their tasks I can walk between the groups quickly and easily and see exactly what they are doing, and during the lesson, myself and my co-teacher can stand pretty much anywhere in the classroom and see exactly what each student is doing with their hands because everything is exposed and there is no desk to hide behind. It works really great, and if we have to clear the room quickly because we're going to throw some dance or an action activity into the lesson then all the boys have to do is stand up and give their chairs a shove toward the wall, and it takes all of 30 seconds to organize the classroom again after. When I first came to the school, one of the reasons the previous teacher had left is because she told them she could not teach in such an unfriendly ESL learning designed classroom. The school had spent an enormous amount of money building this "super lab" with tables that were 10 feet long and 6 feet wide and about 250lbs, but the boys would sit at them and play and shove food and wrappers under them. Or apparently just gab endlessly with each other. Anyways, I had a boss one time who always use to say "it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission" so with his words in mind I got a group of boys in the room with me and convinced them to pick up these tables with their computer cords attached and shift them all to one side of the room. And then we set up our present arrangement. When the administrators first walked in their eyes nearly popped out as they said "you make the room ugly", but they have seen that it has made a huge difference with the way the classes run and that has made it okay in their eyes. So sometimes I think you just have to do what you know is right as an educator and then the results will sell the idea longterm. Sorry for this being so long, but this is one seating format that I have found advantageous.

[Young FRANKenstein]