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Chuggiya55
Joined: 19 May 2008
Location: Canada
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 Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 9:03 pm Post subject: MA, CELTA, OxfordSeminar, Combination TEFL, Online TEFL |
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I am planning to return to Korea and teach either corporate or university students. Right now, I�ve only got a B.Ed. with a specialization in English. I�m thinking seriously about getting CELTA certification in July, but I am also considering other options:
a) Oxford Seminar TEFL certificate (60 hours) in Canada (approx. $1200 CAD)
b) Combination TEFL certificate (100 hours online + 20 hours of practice teaching at a �weekend seminar�) from KEI TEFL (http://www.koredinco.com/tefl.html) (approx. $700 CAD)
c) Online TEFL program for G1-6 from Oxford University Press (30 hours total; only $200 CAD) http://www.oxford.co.kr/eng/pr/wmv.html
Given that my goal is to teach adults, I am leaning heavily towards the CELTA as a short-term solution. However, if I choose any of the above options (a, b, or c), I can apply the money I save towards earning my MA in TESOL.
Any thoughts on which is the best way to go? I�m married to a Korean, so we probably wouldn�t be looking to teach English in any other country. |
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aarontendo
Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Location: Daegu-ish
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Paging Bassexpander... |
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Whistleblower
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| CELTA is the way to go, isn't that what you think Bassexpander? |
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Dome Vans
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Whistleblower wrote: |
| CELTA is the way to go, isn't that what you think Bassexpander? |
I agree. CELTA is the one. Accept nothing less. |
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BS.Dos.
Joined: 29 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm the best language instructor in my street. Why? Trinity College TESOL. |
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purple_buddha
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:44 am Post subject: |
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If you're going to enter an MA TESOL program in the next year or two, save your money. None of the options you mentioned will really make that much of a difference in terms of applying for a university or adult teaching position. The CELTA is the most recognised but may or may not be respected by a potential Korean employer.
If you're looking for a reasonably priced option to tide you over for the next couple of years until you start a grad program, then I'd recommend the KEI-TEFL program. It's a good back-up if you find yourself at SMOE/EPIK/GEPIK. A CELTA on top of an MA TESOL seems like a waste of money to me, but some people swear by their CELTA experiences and will vehemently rave about doing one. |
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Chuggiya55
Joined: 19 May 2008
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 1:04 am Post subject: |
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| purple_buddha wrote: |
If you're going to enter an MA TESOL program in the next year or two, save your money. None of the options you mentioned will really make that much of a difference in terms of applying for a university or adult teaching position. The CELTA is the most recognised but may or may not be respected by a potential Korean employer.
If you're looking for a reasonably priced option to tide you over for the next couple of years until you start a grad program, then I'd recommend the KEI-TEFL program. It's a good back-up if you find yourself at SMOE/EPIK/GEPIK. A CELTA on top of an MA TESOL seems like a waste of money to me, but some people swear by their CELTA experiences and will vehemently rave about doing one. |
Thank you for your very thoughtful answer. Right now, I am in urgent need of a "STRONG" credential. Although cum laude, my B.Ed. degree is from an unknown--albeit fully accredited--private institution. And I've been away from regular classroom teaching for about 4 years; therefore, I am thinking it may be best to over-compensate at this point and make darn sure that I immediately stand a chance at a decent job.
My question about KEI-TEFL is this: how often do they schedule the weekend seminars where one apparently gets his/her 20 hours of practice teaching? Is the practice teaching observed by an instructor who gives feedback?
I sent them an email a couple of weeks ago and got no response. Maybe I'll try again tonight. This is important because I'm in Canada right now, which is where I'd do the on-line portion. I also have a plane ticket to Korea which I could use to get a bit of a holiday AND do the seminar. |
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agoodmouse
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Location: Anyang
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 1:59 am Post subject: |
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Tob55, a poster, is behind KEI-TEFL on this board. He wants people to do only low-cost, essentially only online, teaching TEFLs -- namely, his. He claims he's but the academic adviser/consultant. However, I'm curious about who actually owns it, and if it's a more incestuous enterprise than he lets on.
Frankly, no one has spoken up about the seminar thing KEI-TEFL Mr. Bottinger holds. His name is Wayne Bottiger, actually. I asked him about the frequency and hours of KEI's weekend practicum, but he wouldn't tell me. I suspect he won't tell you, either, as it might happen only once a year if a list fills up to meet some minimum participant number. Again, no response.
I took KEI-TEFL, didn't really think much of it, and so then I completed the CELTA. I just didn't feel right about being a teacher without on-site training of some sort anywhere. It's an on-site TEFL program among others which isn't simply 1 weekend long. Go strong, do a CELTA or Trinity TESOL. They're internationally recognized benchmarks. I'm enjoying my life more than ever as a young teacher now that I did this program. I'm in this for more than a couple years -- the teaching, travel, people, mobility, etc. Online TEFLs can't put you face to face with veteran teacher trainers and actual groups of students who are real beginners/low-intermediate in English. Fact, fact.
You'd do well to read:
1. Soon to be finishing my MA, is it worth getting a TEFL cert?.
2. and For those with a CELTA/TEFL certificate, too.
Both links are voluminous refutations of serial inaccuracies by a poster, bassexpander, who literally made (and continues to make and write) things about a program he's never taken. The threads above justify what I've stated in the preceding sentence. |
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Whistleblower
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 3:08 am Post subject: |
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Good summary mouse. CELTA and Trinity TEFLs are the way forward in Korea, it's only a matter of time so develop professionally do a CELTA (or equivalent) and then enjoy the opportunities such as examining, teacher training, etc. I am sure Bassexpander will like to agree with me.  |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 4:21 am Post subject: |
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You probably don't need it, unless you're a gyopo or someone with difficult issues to overcome that would keep you out of a university job, for example.
As always, to counter those on here who are working for these companies and trying to sell their expensive program (but posing as regular posters). They accuse me of spreading lies and misinformation, but if you read what I have to say, I believe you will find that I'm pretty honest and straight-forward:
| Quote: |
I have a BA.
I didn't need a certification from TEFL International, or CELTA for my university job. I didn't need a TEFL International certificate for my university job.
I didn't need ANY certification.
You don't need a CELTA or a certificate from TEFL International in Korea -- especially if you are going to teach kids. Can you learn something taking the CELTA or getting a TEFL International certificate? You bet. I knock the CELTA a lot, but I like the British Council's website for Task-Based Learning activities. I also use books published by Cambridge. Good stuff. Highly recommended!
The rule of thumb I tell people to follow in regards to TEFL certification, however, goes something like this:
If you are....
... in Korea for just a year or two, and have no plans to teach elsewhere after, don't bother with any TEFL certification.
... in Korea for 3 to 4 years, plan to move on and teach in another country, or stay working a public school job, get a low-cost, approved TEFL course (many are below $400, and can be done via distance. Just make sure they are over 100 hours). If you plan to move around the world and teach in countries that respect the British system, then get a CELTA. All of these certifications (including the CELTA) are next to useless in the USA.
... in Korea for 5 or more years, you should get, or make plans to get, some kind of teaching certification or an MA in Education/TESOL. You could get a CELTA, but if you've been teaching for more than 4 years, I'd say it's a waste of money.
Remember, the CELTA costs about US $1,500 to $2,500, depending on where you take it. The full TEFL International course is going to be similiar in price (it was last I checked). Korea is naturally much more expensive for the CELTA. One could almost say they gouge you here (when they even offer it), but maybe it's the extra cost of buildings or something -- who knows. Don't forget to factor in flight costs, housing costs, and lost work costs for up to 5 weeks. Any flight costs you'd save by taking it in Korea are squashed by the high price of taking it here (unless prices have changed that I'm not aware of).
I added it all up, and found that I'd be out over 4 million won if I took the CELTA, counting lost work time. Even at a 100,000 won per hour raise for having it, that will take you more than a few years to recoup the costs at a public school job.
Not worth it, given my situation. Neither is TEFL International.
Remember: MANY OF THESE CERTIFICATES ARE ONLY ACCREDITED BY THE COMPANIES/GROUPS THEY ARE OFFERED BY.
Would you seek medical care from a doctor who is only a doctor because he passed his own accreditation to become a doctor, and therefore certified himself? Now how about paying that doctor $1,500 to $2,500 for medical care which you don't need, and missing 5 weeks of paid work in the process?
Again, I work at a university, and I didn't need a CELTA or a piece of paper from TEFL International to get my job here. Neither did any of my coworkers, or coworkers at the large SKY uni down the street (few uni teachers in Korea needed it). You don't need one to work at a hagwon, either.
If you seek to increase your pay by 100,000 to 200,000 per month because you work at a public school in Korea, then look into one of the many low-cost TEFL certificate courses offered by companies like ITTT, KEI-TEFL, etc.. Oh, and if you want a lead on a really nice program being offered in Busan, send a PM to Yum Bum Suk. The on-site program he took sounded really great, and it's being offered by a founder of EFL-Law. You can find out about that by clicking on the banner link currently running on this site. The course is taught in person by Rod Ellis, an internationally-praised leader in the EFL industry. If you have been teaching for a while, would be far more interesting than being taught by a bunch of indocrinated trainers who have been trained to tell you you suck and that their way is the only way...
Lastly,
If you plan on teaching around the globe in countries which respect the British system, then consider the CELTA. Also consider, however, that most of these countries will not offer pay/benefits at the level of which you can receive in Korea WITHOUT the need for an expensive TEFL certification.
If you want to spend the $1500 to $2500 it costs to get one of these high-priced certifications just so you can "better yourself," then go for it. Whatever floats your boat. |
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purple_buddha
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 5:50 am Post subject: |
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Chuggiya55,
With a B.Ed and your experience, you don't really need a certificate. If you're feeling uneasy about getting back into the swing of things in Korea, a couple of weeks on the job should shake off your ring rust.
The CELTA in Seoul is $2350 USD. That's a lot of coin just for piece of mind. Plus, I'll reiterate the fact that most Korean bosses don't care about TESL/TEFL/TESOL certificates, including the CELTA. Many Korean universities most certainly won't, as they only value master's degrees and above. A bachelor's degree holder with or without a certificate earns the same salary at a university here.
You'll be coming on an F-2-1 visa and should have no problems getting a decent job based on your CV and current credentials. You should even be able to find an acceptable position for August/September at a university; in the meantime, why not apply for your master's program and save yourself $2350 USD? |
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Chuggiya55
Joined: 19 May 2008
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 6:48 am Post subject: Wow! Thank you everyone for your input! |
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| I very much appreciate the comments and discussion that everyone is providing. Most helpful! |
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Chuggiya55
Joined: 19 May 2008
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 6:53 am Post subject: Is it possible or helpful to "prepare" for a CELTA |
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| One of the comments in this thread mentioned that some folks had "failed" the CELTA interviews. I'm curious as to how that could happen. What are they looking for when they interview CELTA candidates? Somewhere on this site, I had read something about the interview only being used to screen out candidates who can't give eye contact or who can't afford to pay for the course. Comments? |
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Chuggiya55
Joined: 19 May 2008
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| purple_buddha wrote: |
Chuggiya55,
With a B.Ed and your experience, you don't really need a certificate. If you're feeling uneasy about getting back into the swing of things in Korea, a couple of weeks on the job should shake off your ring rust.
The CELTA in Seoul is $2350 USD. That's a lot of coin just for piece of mind. Plus, I'll reiterate the fact that most Korean bosses don't care about TESL/TEFL/TESOL certificates, including the CELTA. Many Korean universities most certainly won't, as they only value master's degrees and above. A bachelor's degree holder with or without a certificate earns the same salary at a university here.
You'll be coming on an F-2-1 visa and should have no problems getting a decent job based on your CV and current credentials. You should even be able to find an acceptable position for August/September at a university; in the meantime, why not apply for your master's program and save yourself $2350 USD? |
Thank you for your very thoughtful comments! |
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Chuggiya55
Joined: 19 May 2008
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 7:05 am Post subject: |
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Thank you for this! I had read it before, but it's worth reviewing again.
| bassexpander wrote: |
You probably don't need it, unless you're a gyopo or someone with difficult issues to overcome that would keep you out of a university job, for example.
As always, to counter those on here who are working for these companies and trying to sell their expensive program (but posing as regular posters). They accuse me of spreading lies and misinformation, but if you read what I have to say, I believe you will find that I'm pretty honest and straight-forward:
| Quote: |
I have a BA.
I didn't need a certification from TEFL International, or CELTA for my university job. I didn't need a TEFL International certificate for my university job.
I didn't need ANY certification.
You don't need a CELTA or a certificate from TEFL International in Korea -- especially if you are going to teach kids. Can you learn something taking the CELTA or getting a TEFL International certificate? You bet. I knock the CELTA a lot, but I like the British Council's website for Task-Based Learning activities. I also use books published by Cambridge. Good stuff. Highly recommended!
The rule of thumb I tell people to follow in regards to TEFL certification, however, goes something like this:
If you are....
... in Korea for just a year or two, and have no plans to teach elsewhere after, don't bother with any TEFL certification.
... in Korea for 3 to 4 years, plan to move on and teach in another country, or stay working a public school job, get a low-cost, approved TEFL course (many are below $400, and can be done via distance. Just make sure they are over 100 hours). If you plan to move around the world and teach in countries that respect the British system, then get a CELTA. All of these certifications (including the CELTA) are next to useless in the USA.
... in Korea for 5 or more years, you should get, or make plans to get, some kind of teaching certification or an MA in Education/TESOL. You could get a CELTA, but if you've been teaching for more than 4 years, I'd say it's a waste of money.
Remember, the CELTA costs about US $1,500 to $2,500, depending on where you take it. The full TEFL International course is going to be similiar in price (it was last I checked). Korea is naturally much more expensive for the CELTA. One could almost say they gouge you here (when they even offer it), but maybe it's the extra cost of buildings or something -- who knows. Don't forget to factor in flight costs, housing costs, and lost work costs for up to 5 weeks. Any flight costs you'd save by taking it in Korea are squashed by the high price of taking it here (unless prices have changed that I'm not aware of).
I added it all up, and found that I'd be out over 4 million won if I took the CELTA, counting lost work time. Even at a 100,000 won per hour raise for having it, that will take you more than a few years to recoup the costs at a public school job.
Not worth it, given my situation. Neither is TEFL International.
Remember: MANY OF THESE CERTIFICATES ARE ONLY ACCREDITED BY THE COMPANIES/GROUPS THEY ARE OFFERED BY.
Would you seek medical care from a doctor who is only a doctor because he passed his own accreditation to become a doctor, and therefore certified himself? Now how about paying that doctor $1,500 to $2,500 for medical care which you don't need, and missing 5 weeks of paid work in the process?
Again, I work at a university, and I didn't need a CELTA or a piece of paper from TEFL International to get my job here. Neither did any of my coworkers, or coworkers at the large SKY uni down the street (few uni teachers in Korea needed it). You don't need one to work at a hagwon, either.
If you seek to increase your pay by 100,000 to 200,000 per month because you work at a public school in Korea, then look into one of the many low-cost TEFL certificate courses offered by companies like ITTT, KEI-TEFL, etc.. Oh, and if you want a lead on a really nice program being offered in Busan, send a PM to Yum Bum Suk. The on-site program he took sounded really great, and it's being offered by a founder of EFL-Law. You can find out about that by clicking on the banner link currently running on this site. The course is taught in person by Rod Ellis, an internationally-praised leader in the EFL industry. If you have been teaching for a while, would be far more interesting than being taught by a bunch of indocrinated trainers who have been trained to tell you you suck and that their way is the only way...
Lastly,
If you plan on teaching around the globe in countries which respect the British system, then consider the CELTA. Also consider, however, that most of these countries will not offer pay/benefits at the level of which you can receive in Korea WITHOUT the need for an expensive TEFL certification.
If you want to spend the $1500 to $2500 it costs to get one of these high-priced certifications just so you can "better yourself," then go for it. Whatever floats your boat. |
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