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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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 Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 9:44 am Post subject: stupid religious nutjob soldiers |
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FALLUJAH, Iraq -- At the western entrance to Fallujah on Tuesday, Muamar Anad handed his residence badge to the Marines guarding the city.
They checked to be sure that he was a city resident, and when they were done, Anad said, a Marine slipped a coin out of his pocket and put it in his hand.
Out of fear, he accepted it, Anad said. When he was inside the city, the college student said he looked at one side of the coin. "Where will you spend eternity?" it read.
He flipped it over, and on the other side it read, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:16."
"They are trying to convert us to Christianity," said Anad, a Sunni Muslim like most residents of this city in Anbar province, west of Baghdad. At home, he told his story and his relatives echoed their disapproval: They'd been given the coins, too, he said.
Fallujah, the scene of a bloody U.S. offensive against Sunni insurgents in 2004, has calmed and grown less hostile to American troops since residents turned against al-Qaeda in Iraq, which had tried to force its brand of Islamist extremism on the population.
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If this is true, it would be like American GIs in Seoul handing out Rising Sun coins in the soju tents. With the added bonus that in Iraq, there are people who are just waiting for any fodder for their Kill All Americans propaganda machine.
Doesn't the US army have regulations against preaching the gospel on company time? Especially when you're already in the middle of a sectarian bloodbath?
http://tinyurl.com/55moeu |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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Get them when they're at their weakest. |
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moosehead
Joined: 05 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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yeah and Bush didn't launch a new Crusades
the future looks scarier and scarier all the time  |
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bookemdanno
Joined: 30 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Tempest in a teapot, OTOH, but I'm sure the leftists and atheists will try to make hay out of it. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| bookemdanno wrote: |
| Tempest in a teapot, OTOH, but I'm sure the leftists and atheists will try to make hay out of it. |
It's pretty much exactly what Queda has been accusing the west of wanting to do: destroy Islam.
Is this kind of behavior more likely to create fanatical suicide-bombing terrorist, or less likely?
Gee, I dunno, let's flip a coin.
A. Heads, you live.
B. Tails, you die.
C. You don't have to do this.
(Okay, I admit, I stole that from someone's avatar ... )
Is that hay enough for ya? 
Last edited by The Bobster on Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:36 am Post subject: |
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| What this fellow did was not bright at all. Anyway, he obviously didn't ask for permission. There is a separation of church and state, and when you are wearing your uniform you are serving the government. You can speak about your views to others. That's fine, but when you are proselytizing that's stepping over the line, and many soldiers come from the Bible Belt where many people are religious, and I've heard many of them are proselytizing which is highly inappropriate. This soldier wasn't using common sense. It is one thing to preach in the U.S. and another in a land where you are trying to win over hearts, and if you anger some people they will kill American soldiers, so he was helping the enemy. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:50 am Post subject: |
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| bookemdanno wrote: |
| Tempest in a teapot, OTOH, but I'm sure the leftists and atheists will try to make hay out of it. |
Could be worse. He could have given the student this...
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:39 am Post subject: |
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A soldier gives someone a coin with a bible verse on it. So? The person can throw away the coin if they want. Its hardly as if he was being threatened with a knife.
What does anyone have to fear? Belief?
None of you start a thread when muslims kill thousands of people who don't want to follow their religion. They "proselytize" by killing people.But in all your heads thats far less noteworthy?
Anyhow, the soldier concerned has been removed from duty.
http://www.worthynews.com/news/cnn-com-2008-WORLD-meast-05-29-iraq-bible-index-html/ |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:41 am Post subject: |
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| Just a point on terminology. For the US military, Soldiers are members of the Army. Members of the Marine Corps are referred to as Marines. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:46 am Post subject: |
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| Just a point on terminology. For the US military, Soldiers are members of the Army. Members of the Marine Corps are referred to as Marines. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| Just a point on terminology. For the US military, Soldiers are members of the Army. Members of the Marine Corps are referred to as Marines. |
They may be referred to that way in military speak, but they are still soldiers in the general sense of the word.
A "ballerina" is still a "dancer".
A 'revolver" is still a "gun".
Original meaning of the word 'soldier" is simply someone who is paid to fight in battle. I take it those in the Marine corps get wages for their efforts?
The meaning of "Marine" is just: a soldier who serves both on shipboard and on land. They have "marines" in Guatemala, the congo, and probably every country you care to name.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/soldier |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:27 am Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
A soldier gives someone a coin with a bible verse on it. So? The person can throw away the coin if they want. Its hardly as if he was being threatened with a knife.
What does anyone have to fear? Belief?
None of you start a thread when muslims kill thousands of people who don't want to follow their religion. They "proselytize" by killing people.But in all your heads thats far less noteworthy?
Anyhow, the soldier concerned has been removed from duty.
http://www.worthynews.com/news/cnn-com-2008-WORLD-meast-05-29-iraq-bible-index-html/ |
As your link points out "U.S. military regulations prohibit religious proselytizing". You can't see any kind of reprisals from handing out religious symbols in a hotpot of religious intolerance. This will just be further proof for al-queda that the US is running a crusade against Islam.
On the matter of Islam killing people being less noteworthy. There are plenty of threads criticizing Islam.
Anyway the military did well to in their actions over what is more about bad publicity than a problem with military members. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
A soldier gives someone a coin with a bible verse on it. So? The person can throw away the coin if they want. Its hardly as if he was being threatened with a knife.
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All true. And by the same token, the CEO of Coca-Cola is free to get up at the next bottlers' convention and yell "Satan Rules!!" from the podium, and everyone can agree or disagree as they see fit.
But if I were a Coca-Cola shareholder, worried about the company's ability to market its' product to religious people around the world, I'd be a little bit pissed off at the CEO's actions. And I'd be asking some pretty serious questions about how a person of such poor judgement got into that position in the first place.
| Quote: |
None of you start a thread when muslims kill thousands of people who don't want to follow their religion. They "proselytize" by killing people.But in all your heads thats far less noteworthy?
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The difference is that none of us here are in any way associated with Islamic terrorism, and so really don't care about how bad the terrorists' p.r. is. But most of us are from countries which are involved, in one way or another, with western military incusrions into Muslim lands.
Now, if al Qaeda recruiters started handing out It's Good To Be Gay bumper stickers in the streets of Baghdad, I would bet that a lot of people on Islamic militant message boards would be rather pissed off about such an off-message tactic being pursued. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| The CEO of Coca-Cola isn't a government employee and, in the scenario you mention, his yelling that isn't on government time. The Marine in question did his little stunt on military time. |
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