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JustJohn
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Location: Your computer screen
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 Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:21 pm Post subject: Some grammar questions |
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10. Whom did you say this package was for? No error.
A. A
B. B
C. C
D. D
E. E
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Supposedly the answer is A, which I assume means they are suggesting it should be "who." But I thought it was who=he, whom=him. Did you say this package was for him? Can anyone explain what I'm missing? |
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Stevie_B
Joined: 14 May 2008
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:15 pm Post subject: Re: Some grammar questions |
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| JustJohn wrote: |
| Quote: |
10. Whom did you say this package was for? No error.
A. A
B. B
C. C
D. D
E. E
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Supposedly the answer is A, which I assume means they are suggesting it should be "who." But I thought it was who=he, whom=him. Did you say this package was for him? Can anyone explain what I'm missing? |
'Whom' is used whenever it is the object of a verb, and 'who' when it is the subject. In this case, it's a subject, so 'who'. When you switch it round - 'this package is for him' - 'he' becomes the object and 'this package' the subject, so 'he' becomes 'him'. Similarly, 'this package is for whom?'. |
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JustJohn
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Location: Your computer screen
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm, how annoying. So if I have to switch things around for it to make sense the him/he trick doesn't work.
Is there any quick and dirty solution for this situation or do I just need to memorize the object of the verb thing and apply it to the sentence? |
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SirFink
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| JustJohn wrote: |
| Is there any quick and dirty solution for this situation ...? |
Yes. Never use "whom." Seriously. It's a completely optional word which can be replaced with "who" everytime without error. |
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JustJohn
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Location: Your computer screen
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| That's not true. At least not on the GRE, and that's what counts. Apparently. |
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Stevie_B
Joined: 14 May 2008
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| JustJohn wrote: |
Hmm, how annoying. So if I have to switch things around for it to make sense the him/he trick doesn't work.
Is there any quick and dirty solution for this situation or do I just need to memorize the object of the verb thing and apply it to the sentence? |
Well, if 'who' is preceded directly by a preposition or verb, it's an object, so becomes 'whom'. E.g. 'For Whom the Bell Tolls'; 'Who does the bell toll for?' |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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The answer is definitely A for all the aforementioned reasons; however, this is one of those grammar things that is slowly going the way of the dodo because people are too lazy to use whom as an object. Sort of like "Can I" and "May I" being ability and permission respectively but rarely anyone really knows or uses them properly anymore.
When my students ask "Can I <whatever>?" I sometimes make the stupid joke of telling them that yes they probably can but they're not allowed. No one gets it. |
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Stevie_B
Joined: 14 May 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| Underwaterbob wrote: |
The answer is definitely A for all the aforementioned reasons; however, this is one of those grammar things that is slowly going the way of the dodo because people are too lazy to use whom as an object. Sort of like "Can I" and "May I" being ability and permission respectively but rarely anyone really knows or uses them properly anymore.
When my students ask "Can I <whatever>?" I sometimes make the stupid joke of telling them that yes they probably can but they're not allowed. No one gets it. |
Well, to be fair, my teachers used to use the same one on us in primary school and most of us were still none the wiser. |
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Grimalkin
Joined: 22 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:17 am Post subject: Re: Some grammar questions |
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| JustJohn wrote: |
| Quote: |
10. Whom did you say this package was for? No error.
A. A
B. B
C. C
D. D
E. E
|
Supposedly the answer is A, which I assume means they are suggesting it should be "who." But I thought it was who=he, whom=him. Did you say this package was for him? Can anyone explain what I'm missing? |
The 'did you say' part is confusing the issue. Take it out and you're left with...
'Who was this package for?'...
...making it clear that 'Who' is the subject of the verb. |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:36 am Post subject: |
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In everyday speech, yes, "whom" is falling by the wayside, but for real hardcore grammar tests, people have to know it.
Question forms don't always follow the standard SVO order in English. As I was taught in grade school and beyond, to parse a question we sometimes have to turn the question into a statment.
In "What did he say?" the sujbect is "he."
In the sentence in question, "Who/m did you say the package was for?", whom is still the object the preposition for, however far removed it is. What else in this sentence could possibly be the object of "for"?
This example is complicated by its being reported speech, so sure, let's take that element out. "Whom was the package for?" It sound awful and no one speaks like this, but the subject of this sentence is "the package," and whom is still the object of the preposition for.
The general, easy rule here that I learned, again, in grade school, is that the case in the question depends on the case of the answer. In this instance, "I said the package was for him."
The correct answer is "whom." |
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Stevie_B
Joined: 14 May 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| daskalos wrote: |
In everyday speech, yes, "whom" is falling by the wayside, but for real hardcore grammar tests, people have to know it.
Question forms don't always follow the standard SVO order in English. As I was taught in grade school and beyond, to parse a question we sometimes have to turn the question into a statment.
In "What did he say?" the sujbect is "he."
In the sentence in question, "Who/m did you say the package was for?", whom is still the object the preposition for, however far removed it is. What else in this sentence could possibly be the object of "for"?
This example is complicated by its being reported speech, so sure, let's take that element out. "Whom was the package for?" It sound awful and no one speaks like this, but the subject of this sentence is "the package," and whom is still the object of the preposition for.
The general, easy rule here that I learned, again, in grade school, is that the case in the question depends on the case of the answer. In this instance, "I said the package was for him."
The correct answer is "whom." |
Yeah, you might be on to something there. |
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JustJohn
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Location: Your computer screen
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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The general, easy rule here that I learned, again, in grade school, is that the case in the question depends on the case of the answer. In this instance, "I said the package was for him."
The correct answer is "whom." |
See, that was my original line of reasoning, but the test says it's wrong.
Thanks for all the responses, by the way. Much appreciated. |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| JustJohn wrote: |
| Quote: |
The general, easy rule here that I learned, again, in grade school, is that the case in the question depends on the case of the answer. In this instance, "I said the package was for him."
The correct answer is "whom." |
See, that was my original line of reasoning, but the test says it's wrong.
Thanks for all the responses, by the way. Much appreciated. |
Who wrote that stupid test? |
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JustJohn
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Location: Your computer screen
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Not sure. It was on some GRE prep thing I found... |
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