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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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 Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:49 pm Post subject: Pakistan to Europe: abolish free speech, or else |
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Pakistan to ask EU to amend laws on freedom of expression
By Tahir Niaz
ISLAMABAD: Pakistan will ask the European Union countries to amend laws regarding freedom of expression in order to prevent offensive incidents such as the printing of blasphemous caricatures of Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) and the production of an anti-Islam film by a Dutch legislator, sources in the Interior Ministry told Daily Times on Saturday.
They said that a six-member high-level delegation comprising officials from the Ministry of Interior, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Ministry of Law would leave Islamabad on Sunday (today) for the EU headquarters in Brussels, Belgium and explain to the EU leadership the backlash against the blasphemous campaign in the name of freedom of expression.
The delegation, headed by an additional secretary of the Interior Ministry, will meet the leaders of the EU countries in a bid to convince them that the recent attack on the Danish Embassy in Pakistan could be a reaction against the blasphemous campaign, sources said.
They said that the delegation would also tell the EU that if such acts against Islam are not controlled, more attacks on the EU diplomatic missions abroad could not be ruled out.
Sources said that the delegation would also hold discussions on inter-religious harmony during its meetings with the EU leaders. |
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008%5C06%5C08%5Cstory_8-6-2008_pg7_14
Submit or we'll kill your diplomats. This is getting out of hand.
Though, I don't know why the Pakistanis thought they even had to ask. Europe has already embraced her unfree, muslim and wonderfully diverse future.
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| Finnish blogger gets 2 years, 7 months in prison for insulting Islam |
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/021321.php
Imagine. In Finland, insulting islam is now a crime. If you would have told Fins 10 years ago that this would be the case they would have laughed the idea off.
The multicult left has decided that muslims are not able to be equal members of European and Canadian society. While Christians can be exposed to any manner of criticism, islam must be protected from criticism. This because the muslims are not able to participate in an open society. If this is the case, I'd rather that instead of the whole civilization being made less free for the muslims sake that the muslims simply be sent back so that the civilization can remain free for the sake of Western people. Enough. This stops or the mass deportations need to start. |
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luvnpeas
Joined: 03 Aug 2006
Location: somewhere i have never travelled
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:17 pm Post subject: Re: Pakistan to Europe: abolish free speech, or else |
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| mises wrote: |
Finnish blogger gets 2 years, 7 months in prison for insulting Islam
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/021321.php
Imagine. In Finland, insulting islam is now a crime. If you would have told Fins 10 years ago that this would be the case they would have laughed the idea off. |
I didn't investigate too thoroughly but your link leads to...
"Lehto was charged with nine counts of gross defamation, inciting ethnic hatred and inciting religious hatred. "
Those are names of illegal acts in the US too. I doubt defamation will get you jail time, but it will certainly get you sued. Inciting racial hatred is a crime in the US in some cases. Ku Klux Klan leaders (and similar types)have gone to jail merely for inciting hate crimes, rather than committing or planning the actual violent acts themselves. I think we're applying the same standard now to anyone affiliated with Al qaeda.
P.S. I tend to agree that saying "Violence against [group] is right and good" should not be a crime. But, that's not a consensus position, even in the U.S. |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: Pakistan to Europe: abolish free speech, or else |
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| mises wrote: |
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/021321.php
Imagine. In Finland, insulting islam is now a crime. If you would have told Fins 10 years ago that this would be the case they would have laughed the idea off.
The multicult left has decided that muslims are not able to be equal members of European and Canadian society. While Christians can be exposed to any manner of criticism, islam must be protected from criticism. This because the muslims are not able to participate in an open society. If this is the case, I'd rather that instead of the whole civilization being made less free for the muslims sake that the muslims simply be sent back so that the civilization can remain free for the sake of Western people. Enough. This stops or the mass deportations need to start. |
To deal with your second point... Finnish Blogger Jailed? I'm calling BS on this one until I see some report that is NOT a right wing blogger repeating the same story in lockstep with all the others.
Google it, try looking for it on newswires, newspapers - the only people who are, or I suspect ever were, talking about this is the right wing blogosphere. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:53 am Post subject: |
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This blog has more information on the Finnish case. I would assume that it actually happened, given the amount of details, including the convicted hatemonger's name, that are provided. But it's difficult for me to tell what charges precisely led to his being jailed. From what I can gather, his posts violated a number of different laws.
http://tinyurl.com/6pux2l |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: |
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He drew a pic of the "prophet" on youtube. He is a clown otherwise, but what got him was islam.
So, enough about part 2 of my post. How about part 1? Pakistan nakedly warning Europe that muslim violence is the consequence of European freedoms. Even islamophobes such as myself don't state things as clearly as the Pakistani government. They smell weakness, and they're right.
How does this end? Does Europe reassert her freedoms or does she slowly submit? This is why Steyn is right about islam coming to dominate Europe. You don't have to have the demographic balance to dominate, you merely have to be more willing to use violence to achieve your political and social goals to dominate. Does Europe have enough sense of her own culture(s) to defend civilization from barbarians? I'm not holding my breath.
http://www.steynonline.com/content/view/1321/
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Of late I�ve been having some sport with a fellow called Oscar van den Boogaard. He�s a novelist over in Europe, and, while I�m not the most assiduous reader of Continental fiction, my eye was caught by an interview he gave to the Belgian newspaper De Standaard. Reflecting on Europe�s accelerating Islamification, he concluded that the jig was up for the Eutopia he loved, but what could he do? �I am not a warrior, but who is?� he shrugged. �I have never learned to fight for my freedom. I was only good at enjoying it.�
This seemed such a poignant epitaph for the Continent that I started quoting it hither and yon. And one thing led to another and I started explaining that Mr van den Boogaard is a Dutch gay humanist, which is, as I like to say, pretty much the trifecta of Eurocool. A cheap joke, but it got a laugh. And before you know it Mr van den Boogaard was playing the same function in my act that Elizabeth Taylor does in Joan Rivers�. (I haven�t seen Miss Rivers since, oh, 1973, so this may have changed.)
�Islam must learn to laugh at itself.� Good luck betting the future on that. As the Ayatollah Khomeini lui-meme put it: �There are no jokes in Islam.�
My point was that back in the Nineties Hollywood movies and sitcoms began introducing gay characters who were the most likeable and got all the best lines, and that Muslims were likely to be the lucky beneficiaries of a similar dispensation. In both cases, the intent is the same - to make Islam, like homosexuality, something only uptight squares are un-hep to. But it seems to have gone down about as well as the University of Amsterdam study into the recent increase in gay bashing by Dutch Muslims, which concluded that �the attackers may be struggling with their own sexual identity�. Amazingly enough, suggesting that these Muslim chappies are most likely a bit light on their loafers doesn�t seem to have done anything to ease inter-communal relations in Europe�s �most tolerant city�.
Which is by way of saying that, if Mr van den Boogaard is banking on the old Islamic funny bone to preserve his Eutopia, it�s a bit of a long shot. More to the point, he�s looking at the problem the wrong way round. It�s not about �them�, it�s about him � or, if you prefer, us: much of the western world has a big hole where its sense of identity ought to be. As Ruth Gledhill, the Religious Correspondent of The Times of London, put it: �It feels as if the soul of Britain is dying.�
You can�t beat something with nothing � which in the end is what those grim Euro-statistics represent. Islam reckons it�s one almighty something, and that�s all it has to be up against contemporary Eutopians. Islam doesn�t need to laugh at itself because it�s too busy laughing at them. |
Can Europe regain a sense of herself? What were all the wars and battles for? What was the struggle against Christian rule about? Why the intellectual battles? Was this all so that one or two generations could have "tolerance" and then be thrust back into the dark ages? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/06/05/gay-bashing-in-amsterdam-goes-unnoticed-in-us/
Read the above for how wonderful diversity is in Europe.
A sample:
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At a fashion show to promote tolerance of gay people on April 30, a national holiday in Holland, celebrating the birthday of the late Queen Juliana, a group of ten Muslim youths dragged gay model Mike Du Pree down from the catwalk, beating him up and breaking his nose. A second model who tried to help out was also attacked.
I could find no reference to this beating on any of the gay news web-sites I checked, including 365gay.com, the Advocate, the Washington Blade as well as sites of the Human Rights Campaign (HRC) and National Gay and Lesbian Task Force (NGLTF). (I did searches on each of these sites for �Amsterdam.�) Why is it HRC is so eager to savage John McCain, yet reluctant to condemn real gay-bashing? And such gay-bashing (as our friend Chris Crain knows from first-hand experience) is a growing phenomenon in the Netherlands.
Martin Bosma, gay issues spokesman of the Dutch Party of Freedom (PVV), said as much:
This shows how strong the Islamic gaybashers feel they are. Even at daylight, on Queen�s Day, in the heart of Amsterdam, they strike . . . . The Dutch nationality of the gaybashers of Rembrandt Square should immediately be taken from them and they should be expelled from the country today. The Netherlands can show no mercy for these people who damage our society in this way. Either they will win, or we will win.
Let us hope that Dutch lawmakers show a similar tough attitude toward such thugs. And that gay Americans take notice of the threats our fellows face in nations run by governments officially tolerant of gay people. |
Can you imagine? In Holland! And the left is almost totally silent on the subject. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| P.S. I tend to agree that saying "Violence against [group] is right and good" should not be a crime. |
Why not?
It would seem to me if someone were on the soapbox saying, "Peas are a stain on humanity and when you see one rolling down the street you should smash it", you would soon begin to feel threatened.
Isn't one of the basic purposes of civilization to be safe and secure? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Why worry about words when you can look at the actions of the European future above your post. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Mises, wasn't the BCHRC decision supposed to come down today? Have you heard anything? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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Two to three weeks apparently. The employees are likely sheltered in a patchouli filled room, nattering over organic tea and such.
I think they have the balls to convict. Though they might, rightly, claim that BC isn't the right jurisdiction. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Can you imagine? In Holland! And the left is almost totally silent on the subject. |
Two guys were beat. Does this never happen to gays in the US? Do you get equally incensed and post about it when it does? Or is your interest really in the opportunity to bash Moslems?
You should pull up your pants. Your agenda is showing. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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Like others, I had to click twice to find the actual crimes the guy coimmitted:
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| he has become notorious for his numerous �filth blogs� containing explicit racist insults illustrated with manipulated pornographic images and Patrioottiradio podcast radio site, which he used to hurl racist insults to politicians, civil servants and members of ethnic and religious minorities. |
I agree with luvnpeas, these are crimes in most western countries, including the US. You might not like that, and I might not either, but criticizing countries for not enforcing thier own laws seems a little strange to me ... so, what am I missing? |
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doc_ido
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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I doubt the EU is going to be amending its freedom of expression laws anytime soon - the article sounds more like bluster to convince Pakistan's populace that their government is taking their concerns seriously. I mean really, how many anti-Israel motions have been tabled at the UN, and how many has anyone actually paid attention to?
As for deporting people on grounds of their religion, I seem to remember reading about a similar experiment in India in the late 50s. It didn't really work. |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:43 pm Post subject: Re: Pakistan to Europe: abolish free speech, or else |
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| mises wrote: |
| Quote: |
Pakistan to ask EU to amend laws on freedom of expression
By Tahir Niaz
ISLAMABAD: Pakistan will ask the European Union countries to amend laws regarding freedom of expression in order to prevent offensive incidents such as the printing of blasphemous caricatures of Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) and the production of an anti-Islam film by a Dutch legislator, sources in the Interior Ministry told Daily Times on Saturday...
They said that the delegation would also tell the EU that if such acts against Islam are not controlled, more attacks on the EU diplomatic missions abroad could not be ruled out.
Sources said that the delegation would also hold discussions on inter-religious harmony during its meetings with the EU leaders. |
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008%5C06%5C08%5Cstory_8-6-2008_pg7_14
Submit or we'll kill your diplomats. This is getting out of hand.
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Your interpretation is a bit extreme. I doubt very much Pakistan is trying to threaten the EU by saying this, instead it's more likely that they are trying to offer an explanation as to why Denmark's embassy was attacked.
It seems strange, since I'm sure everyone has already come to this conclusion. I'm with doc_ido, this sounds like pandering for the readership of this Pakistani paper. |
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Fishead soup
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| GOD DOESN'T EXIST |
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