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garykasparov
Joined: 27 May 2007
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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 Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, it didn't. America has found itself in one of South Korea's periodic anti-American tantrums -- and efforts to make free trade a one-way deal. Korea wants free rein to flood our market with its cars. |
Amen to that. |
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ulsanchris
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Location: take a wild guess
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| I do have to say that i disagree with his final analysis that these protests are anti-american. They do have that element, but I think it has more to do with domestic politics. I think this is the left going at the rights jugular in a very vicious and underhanded method. So far, unfortunately, the left has been doing a good job. |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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The left has gained little.
The meat is still coming in. By agreeing to allow meat 30 months or younger, only 4% of the meat that was coming to Korea before has been stopped. |
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ruffie
Joined: 11 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| I do have to say that i disagree with his final analysis that these protests are anti-american. They do have that element, but I think it has more to do with domestic politics. |
Domestic politics = anti-Americanism in Korea. Are you really in Korea? Yeesh. |
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aka Dave
Joined: 02 May 2008
Location: Down by the river
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| ulsanchris wrote: |
| I do have to say that i disagree with his final analysis that these protests are anti-american. They do have that element, but I think it has more to do with domestic politics. I think this is the left going at the rights jugular in a very vicious and underhanded method. So far, unfortunately, the left has been doing a good job. |
I agree, I think the left wing nationalism goes hand in hand with anti-Americanism. I mean, that's what North Korea is all about. Not that I believe that NK is influencing things, just that's a Korean political trope that exists.
However, you're correct that there is an element of domestic politics. And while some of the nationalism is "anti-American", I think a lot of it is more "pro-Korean" in a sense of "Americans don't recognize/appreciate our dignity". It's a strange brew and hard to pin down. My students are universally against the beef but I can't, can't call them anti-American, just from the way they treat me (incredibly well), and their general attitudes towards the USA. |
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ulsanchris
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Location: take a wild guess
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| ruffie wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I do have to say that i disagree with his final analysis that these protests are anti-american. They do have that element, but I think it has more to do with domestic politics. |
Domestic politics = anti-Americanism in Korea. Are you really in Korea? Yeesh. |
Yes i am in Korea. I have been here a long time. If this was mainly anti-american the people would be protesting the US embassy, and burning US flags. I would say the beef thing is the excuse, the real objective is to discredit 2MB and the right. So far they have been successful. they have forced him to apologize twice. He has either had to give up his reforms or water them down. Also his approval ratings are in the dumps. |
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spliff
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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Beef imports from the US to Korea begin today...  |
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komerican
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| bassexpander wrote: |
The left has gained little.
The meat is still coming in. By agreeing
to allow meat 30 months or younger,
only 4% of the meat that was coming to
Korea before has been stopped. |
They gained what they originally
intended. The protesters have won. The
purpose of the protests was never to stop
all imports. It was never about anti-
Americanism. The public was told for 5
years that beef over 30 months was
dangerous and then saw their president
use beef as a bargaining chip in
negotiations with no rational explanations
about the new standards. The public
rightly said no.
There have been significant changes and
can only be regarded as a victory for the
people of Korea and I'd say for people
everywhere. The government has had to
put on hold many of its projects and they
had to change key members of the
government. Also, Lee apologized twice
and will change the way he does
business. These are significant changes
and it's good that they were done at the
beginning of the administration. Kudos
to the active Korean public who practice
real democracy instead of the
complacency we see in other so called
democratic countries. |
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howie2424
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
These are significant changes
and it's good that they were done at the
beginning of the administration. Kudos
to the active Korean public who practice
real democracy instead of the
complacency we see in other so called
democratic countries. |
That's hilarious. Korea, a country with unsafe beef lecturing the rest of the world on the safety of their product. Korea, a country with a mere 20 years of democracy under its belt now lecturing us on the validity of our democracies. Can you spell �arrogant� komerican?
Last edited by howie2424 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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bovinerebel
Joined: 27 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| komerican wrote: |
| bassexpander wrote: |
The left has gained little.
The meat is still coming in. By agreeing
to allow meat 30 months or younger,
only 4% of the meat that was coming to
Korea before has been stopped. |
They gained what they originally
intended. The protesters have won. The
purpose of the protests was never to stop
all imports. It was never about anti-
Americanism. The public was told for 5
years that beef over 30 months was
dangerous and then saw their president
use beef as a bargaining chip in
negotiations with no rational explanations
about the new standards. The public
rightly said no.
There have been significant changes and
can only be regarded as a victory for the
people of Korea and I'd say for people
everywhere. The government has had to
put on hold many of its projects and they
had to change key members of the
government. Also, Lee apologized twice
and will change the way he does
business. These are significant changes
and it's good that they were done at the
beginning of the administration. Kudos
to the active Korean public who practice
real democracy instead of the
complacency we see in other so called
democratic countries. |
Whatever helps you sleep at night. Talk about backpeddling....how do we go from middle school students insisting that america is trying to murder and poisen koreans to "all we wanted was 30 month old meat" . The truth has obviously dawned on Koreans and the random 30 month issue with no scientific backing to support it was to save a little face for their social fart. Wahtever Korea...you still looking like mad idiots to the rest of the world no matter how you portray it. I'm still getting messages on youtube to tell me how American is trying kill koreans from koreans....so don't pretend and lie this was ever anything but anti americanism.
Something like 4% of beef imports will be stopped....but in reality we all know whatever beef is available will find it's way to Korea as it has the past months in mcdonalds burgers and the like anyway. Hooray for cheaper beef ! |
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komerican
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| bovinerebel wrote: |
| komerican wrote: |
| bassexpander wrote: |
The left has gained little.
The meat is still coming in. By agreeing
to allow meat 30 months or younger,
only 4% of the meat that was coming to
Korea before has been stopped. |
They gained what they originally
intended. The protesters have won. The
purpose of the protests was never to stop
all imports. It was never about anti-
Americanism. The public was told for 5
years that beef over 30 months was
dangerous and then saw their president
use beef as a bargaining chip in
negotiations with no rational explanations
about the new standards. The public
rightly said no.
There have been significant changes and
can only be regarded as a victory for the
people of Korea and I'd say for people
everywhere. The government has had to
put on hold many of its projects and they
had to change key members of the
government. Also, Lee apologized twice
and will change the way he does
business. These are significant changes
and it's good that they were done at the
beginning of the administration. Kudos
to the active Korean public who practice
real democracy instead of the
complacency we see in other so called
democratic countries. |
Whatever helps you sleep at night. Talk about backpeddling....how do we go from middle school students insisting that america is trying to murder and poisen koreans to "all we wanted was 30 month old meat" . The truth has obviously dawned on Koreans and the random 30 month issue with no scientific backing to support it was to save a little face for their social fart. Wahtever Korea...you still looking like mad idiots to the rest of the world no matter how you portray it. I'm still getting messages on youtube to tell me how American is trying kill koreans from koreans....so don't pretend and lie this was ever anything but anti americanism.
Something like 4% of beef imports will be stopped....but in reality we all know whatever beef is available will find it's way to Korea as it has the past months in mcdonalds burgers and the like anyway. Hooray for cheaper beef ! |
Why did the US ban Canadian beef over 30 months for 5 years?
They only ended the ban at the end of 2007.
If it wasn't arbitrary for the USDA why do you say it's arbitrary for Koreans to use the same standard? Does Korea have to change its standard as soon as the US does?
How much of this is actually the fault of the Lee government?
If the US Cattlemen's Association can call Canadian beef "dangerous" then what is so �mad� about Koreans saying essentially the same thing since that Canadian beef will end up in the US market?
Clearly it's your campaign to portray Koreans as irrational that is "idiotic". And your unwillingness to admit that Koreans do have a point actually shows your own Anti-Koreanism.
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/opinion/story.html?id=0162e101-698e-4b8b-87e8-ea80430e050f
"Allowing re-entry of older Canadian cattle and beef has created an "unjustified and unnecessary increased risk of infection of U.S. cattle with BSE...The R-Calf position appears eerily similar to that of European Union countries looking askance at the BSE catastrophe that devastated the United Kingdom's cattle industry during the 1980s and 90s. "The policy of trying to keep your competitor's diseases out of your herd and population did not require scientific proof that the disease would be fatal," says an important book by Patrick van Zwanenberg and Erik Millstone of the University of Sussex in Brighton, U.K., "it was sufficient for it to be unwelcome."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41076-2004May19.html
"Those included accepting only cattle less than 30 months old and procedures to remove nervous-system tissue from carcasses before they were processed.
"I think they've been irresponsible," Bullard said. "I think they have unnecessarily placed the U.S. cattle industry and consumers at risk." ...
Mad cow disease, also known as bovine spongiform encephalopathy, is believed to be concentrated in the brain and central nervous system, and meat closer to those tissues is considered to be at highest risk. The least hazardous cuts are believed to be boneless ones containing only muscle. Bone-in cuts and ground beef are considered more hazardous.
Because the agent that causes the disease takes a long time to become active and dangerous, meat from animals younger than 30 months is believed to be safe." |
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freshking
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| komerican wrote: |
| bassexpander wrote: |
The left has gained little.
The meat is still coming in. By agreeing
to allow meat 30 months or younger,
only 4% of the meat that was coming to
Korea before has been stopped. |
They gained what they originally
intended. The protesters have won. The
purpose of the protests was never to stop
all imports. It was never about anti-
Americanism. The public was told for 5
years that beef over 30 months was
dangerous and then saw their president
use beef as a bargaining chip in
negotiations with no rational explanations
about the new standards. The public
rightly said no.
There have been significant changes and
can only be regarded as a victory for the
people of Korea and I'd say for people
everywhere. The government has had to
put on hold many of its projects and they
had to change key members of the
government. Also, Lee apologized twice
and will change the way he does
business. These are significant changes
and it's good that they were done at the
beginning of the administration. Kudos
to the active Korean public who practice
real democracy instead of the
complacency we see in other so called
democratic countries. |
I disagree. Most of the Koreans I have talked with say nothing about whether the beef is 30 months old or not. The Korean public was mislead. Most people here don't know the facts about the history of mad cow in the US. A stigma has been attached to American beef that all of it is not safe. All of this has been a carefully orchestrated attempt to torpedo the FTA and American beef sales here in Korea and continue Korean protectionism over their business. How is this kind of manipulation an example of real democracy as you say? |
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Stevie_B
Joined: 14 May 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| komerican wrote: |
| bassexpander wrote: |
The left has gained little.
The meat is still coming in. By agreeing
to allow meat 30 months or younger,
only 4% of the meat that was coming to
Korea before has been stopped. |
They gained what they originally
intended. The protesters have won. The
purpose of the protests was never to stop
all imports. It was never about anti-
Americanism. The public was told for 5
years that beef over 30 months was
dangerous and then saw their president
use beef as a bargaining chip in
negotiations with no rational explanations
about the new standards. The public
rightly said no.
There have been significant changes and
can only be regarded as a victory for the
people of Korea and I'd say for people
everywhere. The government has had to
put on hold many of its projects and they
had to change key members of the
government. Also, Lee apologized twice
and will change the way he does
business. These are significant changes
and it's good that they were done at the
beginning of the administration. Kudos
to the active Korean public who practice
real democracy instead of the
complacency we see in other so called
democratic countries. |
I like the way that you've structured this post like a poem.
---------------
The Mad Cow AMERICA!!
The politicians are lying
And soon Korean children will be dying
Why! Why do you hate Korea!
Don't you know that I live here!?
BANG! BANG! go the riot police
Shooting innocent CHILDREN!!!!
Why can't we Just have PEACE?!!
Instead we must have to die. What then?
I love Korea and it is my home
And America wants to poison us with bones
From cows what are deadly and mad.
This doens't make me very glad.
America! You are not good a country!
Cos you want to poisons us with cows.
And you always tell us what to do!
I want you to stop NOW!!!
by Komerican (11 yrs old) |
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bovinerebel
Joined: 27 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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Why did the US ban Canadian beef over 30 months for 5 years?
They only ended the ban at the end of 2007.
If it wasn't arbitrary for the USDA why do you say it's arbitrary for Koreans to use the same standard? Does Korea have to change its standard as soon as the US does?
|
That's not what took people to the streets and you know it. They were holding posters and little girls were crying because everyone was going to die ...the americans were trying to poisen them with meat that came off the shelves in america...poisenous , old beef. That's the mind set of the protestors...you trying to portray them as rational people with any reasonable understanding of the issue is laughable.
| Quote: |
How much of this is actually the fault of the Lee government?
|
I would have dismissed the insane protestors with their non issues too. In any rational country they'd have come to his senses. Only in Korea do you have to give in to madness , irrationality and insanity because it's so widespread.
| Quote: |
If the US Cattlemen's Association can call Canadian beef "dangerous" then what is so �mad� about Koreans saying essentially the same thing since that Canadian beef will end up in the US market?
|
Once again..that's not what they were saying . My own students were telling me how dangerous and poisenous all American beef was and how it would kill millions of Koreans. Stop the backpeddling.
| Quote: |
| Clearly it's your campaign to portray Koreans as irrational that is "idiotic". And your unwillingness to admit that Koreans do have a point actually shows your own Anti-Koreanism. |
I'm anti-stupidty. If you assume that to mean anti-Korean , then think about what you are saying about Korea. They had no point ...they backpeddled to find a small technicallity to save face...but I remember those middle school girls who had studied so hard and now were going to die. Oh those evil American little girl killers. Please. Save it for someone who doesn't live in Korea....we saw it all.
the rest of your post is just some lame attempt to once again make the silly argument that most koreans were so well informed abotu mad cows that they were protesting on the scientific basis that proportionally 30 month year old beef was considered safer....instead of making knee jerk reactions fueled by anti americanism and bad information.
hahahahahahahahahaahahah
Grow up !
Last edited by bovinerebel on Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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