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fortysixyou
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
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 Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:31 am Post subject: Nearing the End of My Second year in Korea |
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A few things I've learned this past year teaching middle school students at a hakwon, things I wish I'd known a year ago:
1.) Don't teach at a hakwon. The hours suck, the pay sucks, the vacation time sucks, having 20 students per class sucks, and the classroom that the students are packed into sucks. Moreover, students are not motivated by the time they reach you, as it is their 10th hour of school for the day.
2.) Don't teach middle school students. They're generally idiots. Especially when there's 20 of them packed into a tiny room. Unless you're an Schertzer or a hardcore disciplinarian, classroom management pretty much goes out the window, along with any hope of actually teaching English.
3.) A year is a long time to work a job you hate, so don't sign a contract unless you're absolutely sure about the school. Ask questions before you sign, demand pictures of the apartment, ask ask ask, be a pain in the ass about it if you have to.
4.) Accept no less than 2.5 million a month.
5.) Accept no less than 5 weeks paid vacation.
6.) 40 hours at the office a week is bullshit. Get a job that's cool with you coming in and leaving whenever you like, as long as you show up prepared for your classes. Few things are more sucky than having your coworkers spy on/tell on you for showing up or leaving 10 minutes late one day.
Anyone have any additional nuggets of wisdom? |
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DaeguKid
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:43 am Post subject: |
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yeah i got a nugget...for you.
Quit your complaining and do your job!
Why don't you try going home, work somewhere for 2 years and then start the speal of crap you just gave above....
"boss, you know i have been here for two years now, how about 5 weeks vacation"
"Boss, everyone works 40 hours, but i get my work done in 30. Im going to take off now, screw everyone else and this system you got going"
Your first few points are spot on...do your homework, check out the place where you work and if you like it take it. That is a flat out rule anywhere in the working world. But don't walk in with the swagger and demands you suggest people do.
What many waygooks have to remember here is that Asians bust their ass 8 days a week! Along comes lazy whitey and demands the world. Well, your crap demands would not work at home, so think not of applying them here. Just shut up and put up is my advice to people here. |
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lorenchristopher
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:44 am Post subject: |
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Sounds like you had a bad hagwon...I wouldn't rule out working at them completely though.
I work 19 hours/week at my hagwon, only have to be there to teach. The kids are great, we just play games and do fun activities....as long as you have some idea about classroom management you shouldn't have a problem. It's about keeping them engaged and entertained....I don't actually TEACH anything, lol.
5 weeks paid vacation would indeed be nice, can you really demand this from a hagwon? All in all I think I lucked out for my first year job, and if I resign with them I'll be getting a suhweet raise. You just gotta look out for the bad hagwons, I know there are some truly crappy ones out there....looks like you experienced one or two of them? |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:06 am Post subject: Re: Nearing the End of My Second year in Korea |
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| fortysixyou wrote: |
Moreover, students are not motivated by the time they reach you, as it is their 10th hour of school for the day.
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Dude, middle school students aren't motivated during hours 1-9 of school. At least in your 10th hour they are sleepy. |
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esetters21
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:15 am Post subject: |
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| DaeguKid wrote: |
What many waygooks have to remember here is that Asians bust their ass 8 days a week!
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Apart from the obvious how many days are in a week, your claim is still way exaggerated when it comes to productivity versus time spent working. Check the facts. |
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fortysixyou
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| DaeguKid wrote: |
yeah i got a nugget...for you.
Quit your complaining and do your job!
Why don't you try going home, work somewhere for 2 years and then start the speal of crap you just gave above....
"boss, you know i have been here for two years now, how about 5 weeks vacation"
"Boss, everyone works 40 hours, but i get my work done in 30. Im going to take off now, screw everyone else and this system you got going"
Your first few points are spot on...do your homework, check out the place where you work and if you like it take it. That is a flat out rule anywhere in the working world. But don't walk in with the swagger and demands you suggest people do.
What many waygooks have to remember here is that Asians bust their ass 8 days a week! Along comes lazy whitey and demands the world. Well, your crap demands would not work at home, so think not of applying them here. Just shut up and put up is my advice to people here. |
Did I come on this board in the past year and complain? Nope.
Am I complaining about my job now? Nope.
I'm just talking about stuff I learned this year, my second year in Korea, my first year at a hakwon.
Maybe you're right that I shouldn't expect 5 weeks of vacation my second year on the job back home....UNLESS I WAS A MOTHERFUCKING TEACHER?!?!?! How much vacation time to teachers get back home? Oh yeah, 3 months.
Foreign teachers who demand the 'world' as you say usually end up getting it. I know dudes who teach 18 hours a week, four days a week, with 4 months of paid vacation. But you're saying we should suck it up and be grateful for our 5 days of vacation, simply because Koreans work more hours than us? Sorry, but no. |
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DaeguKid
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| esetters21 wrote: |
| DaeguKid wrote: |
What many waygooks have to remember here is that Asians bust their ass 8 days a week!
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Apart from the obvious how many days are in a week, your claim is still way exaggerated when it comes to productivity versus time spent working. Check the facts. |
Sorry, did I miss the productivity vs work chart that you are going on about?
Check the facts? Facts are most Koreans work 6 days or more a week!
Try telling that to buddy at home...would you take the job? As if! There is job slacking everywhere in this world! Just ask any Federal Employee in case of proof needed.
What is happening here is you get some lazy ass people who come over here, get two years under their belt and then they consider themselves the end all be all.
I work in a great place. Job is very easy going, students for the most part are ok, management is great....the one problem though is the fellow staff members. 90% of them are solid and realize that they have it good. But it is the 10% that should be fired and kicked out on their ass. All they do is demand, demand, demand! I won't get into details of how good it is, but it is damn good! The point being is that there is a long line up around the corner for someone waiting to take their job from them and it will happen.
It will happen because the management who goes to work 5-6 days a week and puts in 50 plus hours doesn't need to hear little Wendy and or Wally Whiner go on about bs!
DK |
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esetters21
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| DaeguKid wrote: |
| esetters21 wrote: |
| DaeguKid wrote: |
What many waygooks have to remember here is that Asians bust their ass 8 days a week!
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Apart from the obvious how many days are in a week, your claim is still way exaggerated when it comes to productivity versus time spent working. Check the facts. |
Sorry, did I miss the productivity vs work chart that you are going on about?
Check the facts? Facts are most Koreans work 6 days or more a week!
Try telling that to buddy at home...would you take the job? As if! There is job slacking everywhere in this world! Just ask any Federal Employee in case of proof needed.
What is happening here is you get some lazy ass people who come over here, get two years under their belt and then they consider themselves the end all be all.
I work in a great place. Job is very easy going, students for the most part are ok, management is great....the one problem though is the fellow staff members. 90% of them are solid and realize that they have it good. But it is the 10% that should be fired and kicked out on their ass. All they do is demand, demand, demand! I won't get into details of how good it is, but it is damn good! The point being is that there is a long line up around the corner for someone waiting to take their job from them and it will happen.
It will happen because the management who goes to work 5-6 days a week and puts in 50 plus hours doesn't need to hear little Wendy and or Wally Whiner go on about bs!
DK |
Here you go:
http://stats.oecd.org/WBOS/Index.aspx?DatasetCode=LEVEL
Learn something about economics while your at it. |
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Captain Marlow
Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Location: darkness
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:33 am Post subject: Re: Nearing the End of My Second year in Korea |
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| fortysixyou wrote: |
A few things I've learned this past year teaching middle school students at a hakwon, things I wish I'd known a year ago:
1.) Don't teach at a hakwon. The hours suck, the pay sucks, the vacation time sucks, having 20 students per class sucks, and the classroom that the students are packed into sucks. Moreover, students are not motivated by the time they reach you, as it is their 10th hour of school for the day.
i think the op is dead on here... the hours suck if you're a morning person or like to do things in the evening that aren't always at the pub... i do believe that by 10 at night, the kids are tired just ready to eat (most of them haven't) and go home to begin another 3 hours of homework...
2.) Don't teach middle school students. They're generally idiots. Especially when there's 20 of them packed into a tiny room. Unless you're an Schertzer or a hardcore disciplinarian, classroom management pretty much goes out the window, along with any hope of actually teaching English.
one word: puberty... i know it's prob pay-back time karma wise, being that i was such a booger myself at that age, but it does get old having to constantly discipline... i'm not sure that they're idiots, but i do enjoy the times when i get to teach the elementary students instead because they actually seem interested in what's going on and not all the other non-sense that teens pull...
3.) A year is a long time to work a job you hate, so don't sign a contract unless you're absolutely sure about the school. Ask questions before you sign, demand pictures of the apartment, ask ask ask, be a pain in the ass about it if you have to.
how could anyone argue with wanting to see a few pics and talk to a few current teachers beforehand... sounds smart...
4.) Accept no less than 2.5 million a month.
if you check the job board here on dave's, lots of places are beginning to pay this or more... should be doable with a degree in eng/eng ed... especially in your second year...
5.) Accept no less than 5 weeks paid vacation.
you'd be extremely lucky to get this at hakwon...
6.) 40 hours at the office a week is bullshit. Get a job that's cool with you coming in and leaving whenever you like, as long as you show up prepared for your classes. Few things are more sucky than having your coworkers spy on/tell on you for showing up or leaving 10 minutes late one day.
it would be nice to be able to leave and work from the coffee shop or pub or whatever... my school is a bit nazi over this (if i want to leave an hour early, i have to come in an hour early; get the stares if i'm 5 mins late or leave 5 mins early)... but really it's not too bad...
i think the ops advice is solid... and it didn't come off as bitchin, but rather genuine advice that could be useful to a newbie...
Anyone have any additional nuggets of wisdom? |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:50 am Post subject: |
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If you take the OP's advice, you will eventually get what you want, if you are qualified and a good candidate.
There are tons of good jobs, be they in haggies, public schools, or unis, but you have to have a bottom-line and stick to it.
Most people start looking for jobs and when they don't get an outstanding offer in the first couple of weeks, they settle.
Korea is all about timing and applying. You have to get your resume out there, and don't dicker with recruiters. If you want 2.5 with a good apartment (photos), phone numbers of previous and current employees for references on the place, and 3, 4, 5 weeks vacation, just tell the recruiters that's what your bottomline is and don't budge. Put on a shirt and tie and go get a nice photo done. Take the time to do a professional resume.
Know what you want and don't settle for less, and you'll get it. In the meantime, take a few weeks and kick it in Thailand or Cambodia while the workplaces get more and more desperate for hires, or the ones they hired don't come through.
P.S. Working at a uni with 4-6 month vacation, with uni-aged students, with uni-curriculum and staff, well, it just beats the hell out of teaching at a hagwon. It's not even close.
that's my 4 cents. |
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DaeguKid
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:18 am Post subject: |
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I actually thank you for backing me up! Next time you google a little chart to prove your point, take a look at it. Does wonders when trying to prove a point!
Korea is the only country on that list that is over 2000 working hours a year....per person! I am not talking about GDP but needless to say there is a relation.
More so, the way I see it and I have a feeling most people would feel the same, is when im at work, being productive or not, the employer still has my time! I can't do what i want to do. I am employed until my day is over. It's called a job. (little economics there for ya! work then get paid) 
esetters, my point is this, most Koreans work more than most Yanks, Nucks, Kiwis, Aussies, Brits and Irish (thanks to your little search, the average says so right there on paper). Cracker boy comes along and starts demanding less hours and more vacation time even though the gig they have would be adequate enough at home. (house, bonus, airfare, 1 or 2 weeks vaca) That you would not even dare tell your boss you want 5 weeks holis and trim the 40hr work week down to 30 with two years under your belt. By all means, go look for it, heck even demand it, but don't expect it!
Tell ya what. If a CV came across my desk and i conducted an interview with someone requesting such demands it would be the longest interview I would ever conduct. Why? for shits and giggles! SIMPLE AS THAT! I want hear what someone with such a loose grip on reality would have to say.
Seriously though, your little wikepedia search was great support.
Cheers
DK |
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icicle
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Location: Gyeonggi do Korea
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:41 am Post subject: |
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I would personally say that 20 students in a class is a very big class for a hagwon ... Most classes would be much smaller than that which is a big difference in teaching them. Class sizes in mine would rarely be more than 10 students.
If you won't accept less than 5 weeks holiday then you don't want a hagwon job because you are just not going to get that in very many (if any) hagwon jobs.
You could probably hold out in the current climate for a pay of 2.5 million but they are certainly going to expect you to work for it.
I personally also don't mind the time that I spend at my hagwon when I am not physically teaching a class. Because we are actually teaching the students rather than just playing games there is preparation work for the classes to be done and I have found that the time I am there but not teaching is about the right amount of time to prepare for the classes which means I very rarely take work home and at the same time have not too much time at school where I don't have something to do (which I had a lot of last year in a public school) |
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jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| Koreans work more than is healthy, we should not look to their standards. We have a skill they don't, one that is in huge demand--we speak English with native proficiency. We have a massive advantage over 99% of the competing labor pool. Ergo, our working conditions are not the same. Why in the name of Park Chung-hee would we subject ourselves to the same mindless devotion to hierarchy if we didn't have to? |
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esetters21
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| DaeguKid wrote: |
I actually thank you for backing me up! Next time you google a little chart to prove your point, take a look at it. Does wonders when trying to prove a point!
Korea is the only country on that list that is over 2000 working hours a year....per person! I am not talking about GDP but needless to say there is a relation.
More so, the way I see it and I have a feeling most people would feel the same, is when im at work, being productive or not, the employer still has my time! I can't do what i want to do. I am employed until my day is over. It's called a job. (little economics there for ya! work then get paid)
esetters, my point is this, most Koreans work more than most Yanks, Nucks, Kiwis, Aussies, Brits and Irish (thanks to your little search, the average says so right there on paper). Cracker boy comes along and starts demanding less hours and more vacation time even though the gig they have would be adequate enough at home. (house, bonus, airfare, 1 or 2 weeks vaca) That you would not even dare tell your boss you want 5 weeks holis and trim the 40hr work week down to 30 with two years under your belt. By all means, go look for it, heck even demand it, but don't expect it!
Tell ya what. If a CV came across my desk and i conducted an interview with someone requesting such demands it would be the longest interview I would ever conduct. Why? for shits and giggles! SIMPLE AS THAT! I want hear what someone with such a loose grip on reality would have to say.
Seriously though, your little wikepedia search was great support.
Cheers
DK |
Nobody ever debates the hours that they work. Those numbers rarely change for them. We are talking about 2 different things, however. Let's just agree to disagree. |
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Faunaki
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| I agree with everything the OP said. I think the same thing everyday. |
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