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Why doesn't the USA just leave South Korea?
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DaffyD73



Joined: 28 Nov 2007
Location: Planet Earth on the left

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:18 pm    Post subject: Why doesn't the USA just leave South Korea? Reply with quote

So the USA has a military presence here which has carried over since the UN forces came in back in the 50's to protect from the communist north. I understand that one could say that the war is not finished as it is just a cease fire, but given the negative feelings towards Americans by Koreans, being brought to a head by the Mad cow thing. why does the USA just say f it, you complain and complain we'll just leave see you later.

The USa has a military presence in Japan and also other areas of the Pacific why the need to stay somewhere where your not welcomed with open arms, and appreciated. the saying "One does not know what one has till it is lost".
I do not say this as a reaction to the mad cow thingy - this is a democracy and the people have a right to express thier opinions whether you think them right or wrong is your opinion ( and since we are in another country - it's not our right to force our opinion on them, the opposite is also true). But korea needs a kick up the backside as a misbehaving child would who starts to take for granted what is provided for it and still asks for more.

Your thoughts?
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last I heard, the rioters are not a majority of the Korean populace.
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cazzy3



Joined: 07 May 2008
Location: kangwon-do

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

having your military positioned all around the world is as good as it gets in terms of intelligence, strategic positioning, and simple intimidation. why do you think the US has bases in turkey, kuwait, germany, etc. now they want to have one in iraq.

old saying...keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.

us will never leave korea, unless they have to. it's too close to russia, n. korea and china.
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DaffyD73



Joined: 28 Nov 2007
Location: Planet Earth on the left

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes OK the old saying is a reason, but when you consider the warfare of today and the style of sending in the planes first etc... and the lessor need for Ground forces until the initial cleanup stage - the closeness factor is moot.
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poet13



Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Location: Just over there....throwing lemons.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The presence of the US in Korea provides a great deal of stability in the region. There are few, and I mean those who actually know about this stuff, who doubt that North Koreas attitude toward respecting the demarcation line with South Korea would be much more aggressive. As it is, North Korea has snatched people from South Korea, attacked patrol boats, every so often abruptly moves tens of thousands of soldiers and armor to within striking distsance of the border, fires missiles over sovereign territory, pops nukes, digs tunnels...and this stuff is in not that long ago....ok, the tunnels were a while back.

The US is here at the invitation of the South Korean government. Regardless of democracy, sometimes the government with all it's fancy pants studies, and expensive analysts, just has to make decisions for the people.

This is not Canada, and a referendum is not always necessary.
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cazzy3



Joined: 07 May 2008
Location: kangwon-do

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

proximity is very important even in today's warfare...just ask israel!! most long range missiles can be intercepted and/or detected but if you are in close range you can launch an multitude of short/mid range missiles from subs w/o having to jeapordize any aircraft.

i agree that it's not as important in the past in terms of logistical advantages, but just knowing the US is there may help prevent any incidents.

it's sort of the reason why US subs are poking their heads up in the Mediterranean, off the coast of Syria, etc. they want people to know they are there.
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pkang0202



Joined: 09 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The US pulling out of Korea would be a huge sign of weakness. It sends a message around the world, that if you pressure enough, the US will just pack up and leave.

It would allow China to be more aggressive in *beep* handling of Taiwan. NK would get more aggressive with their own nuclear strategy. It'll send message all across the Middle East that the US can easily be presuaded to get the f out.

Also, the US has keeping its end of the bargain of protecting South Korea against aggressors. Pulling out would be abandoning an ally. That would shake the confidence of many many countries that are counting on the US to be there when shit hits the fan (all NATO countries, Japan, Israel...).
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not only that, but it would also encourage Japan, South Korea and Taiwan to seriously consider going nuclear. After all if you are doubting your ally's willingness to protect you, you will seek for alternative means of protection. This would increase proliferation and likely lead to a new arms race. This in turn would get Russia upset and one by one the other big powers would get dragged in.

Much better to keep the status quo...better the devil you know then the devil you don't.
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caniff



Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pkang0202 wrote:
The US pulling out of Korea would be a huge sign of weakness. It sends a message around the world, that if you pressure enough, the US will just pack up and leave.

It would allow China to be more aggressive in *beep* handling of Taiwan. NK would get more aggressive with their own nuclear strategy. It'll send message all across the Middle East that the US can easily be presuaded to get the f out.

Also, the US has keeping its end of the bargain of protecting South Korea against aggressors. Pulling out would be abandoning an ally. That would shake the confidence of many many countries that are counting on the US to be there when shit hits the fan (all NATO countries, Japan, Israel...).


True.
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endo



Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul...my home

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pkang0202 wrote:
The US pulling out of Korea would be a huge sign of weakness. It sends a message around the world, that if you pressure enough, the US will just pack up and leave.

It would allow China to be more aggressive in *beep* handling of Taiwan. NK would get more aggressive with their own nuclear strategy. It'll send message all across the Middle East that the US can easily be presuaded to get the f out.

Also, the US has keeping its end of the bargain of protecting South Korea against aggressors. Pulling out would be abandoning an ally. That would shake the confidence of many many countries that are counting on the US to be there when shit hits the fan (all NATO countries, Japan, Israel...).



I agree with everything you said.


However, I would also have to add that the allies also work with their public to properly inform them of the shared interests they have im maintaining an alliance.

The Korean military and to an extent the goverment (save for President Noh) has always been a steady ally of the Americans. So has the business sector to an extent.

But the Korean government really needs to reign in the teacher's union and some of the material taught to the younger generation here.

By censoring the deplorable state of the North Korean regime and it's human rights issues, and instead focusing attention on a rock in the East Sea of Japan and American imperialism, the education system in this country masking the true threats and in fact weakening the ROK/US alliance.

And I truely believe that certain high ups in the education sector of this country are intentially masking the threat posed from the Norks.



In addition, the leadership needs to improve their public relations in regards to showing the general public how important the US troop presence in South Korea is to the country's security and economy.

The tank accident of 2002 and the role Presidential candidate Noh plaed in fanning the flames of anti-Americans was incredibly irresponsible.

That event alone really led me to question why the Americans should be helping the South Koreans at all.
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ytuque



Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Location: I drink therefore I am!

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the US pulled out of Korea, the North Koreans could take over without much of a fight. The stock market of every industrialized country would crash. There is a lot at risk.
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Adventurer



Joined: 28 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:53 am    Post subject: Re: Why doesn't the USA just leave South Korea? Reply with quote

DaffyD73 wrote:
So the USA has a military presence here which has carried over since the UN forces came in back in the 50's to protect from the communist north. I understand that one could say that the war is not finished as it is just a cease fire, but given the negative feelings towards Americans by Koreans, being brought to a head by the Mad cow thing. why does the USA just say f it, you complain and complain we'll just leave see you later.

The USa has a military presence in Japan and also other areas of the Pacific why the need to stay somewhere where your not welcomed with open arms, and appreciated. the saying "One does not know what one has till it is lost".
I do not say this as a reaction to the mad cow thingy - this is a democracy and the people have a right to express thier opinions whether you think them right or wrong is your opinion ( and since we are in another country - it's not our right to force our opinion on them, the opposite is also true). But korea needs a kick up the backside as a misbehaving child would who starts to take for granted what is provided for it and still asks for more.

Your thoughts?


I understand your sentiments, and I share it somewhat, but only 30-35% of Koreans consider America to be their enemy. Part of that may or may not be connected George Bush and the rest to native xenophobia.
It is very serious when 1/3rd of Koreans are anti-American, and they are not a Muslim country. Look, the US didn't come to Korea in 1950, because they cared about Koreans. It was more to do Japan a favor and fight off communists.

The problem is Korea has long had a problem with radical Leftists and nationalists. Thousands of them were killed off, but they are still very strong, not that I am a fan of killing people off and purges. The radical Left started this smear campaign against the president, but he set himself up for the fall by making crazy promises like George Bush. He sounded like Bush with "No Child Left Behind" with his crazy English program. Also, that canal project was pretty dumb. I am not a huge fan of the lack of Korean appreciation for its number one trading partner and ally. But, sometimes your allies are not always the most well-behaved. Anyway, the US didn't behave so well when many Americans acted all anti-French and spoke about freedom fries when French people disagreed with the US politically. I am for keeping troops in South Korea while negotiating with North Korea to get them to be an American ally.
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ajgeddes



Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Location: Yongsan

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ytuque wrote:
If the US pulled out of Korea, the North Koreans could take over without much of a fight. The stock market of every industrialized country would crash. There is a lot at risk.


Haha, yeah right. The South Korean military is pretty much as modern as any military in the world and after the initial shock would would be able to rip apart the Norks.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of the reason the US stays is simply inertia.

Anyway, the real question is why does the Korean government ask us to stay? Even during the 10 years of the not-so-friendly party in power, we were not asked to leave. The answer: It serves S. Korea's national interests to keep the troops here.
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Lekker



Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ytuque wrote:
If the US pulled out of Korea, the North Koreans could take over without much of a fight. The stock market of every industrialized country would crash. There is a lot at risk.


You are right about the North coming in like the Stay Puff Marshmallow Man but how do you know stock markets in EVERY industrialized nation would crash?
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