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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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 Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:41 am Post subject: Do Not Support Bob Barr |
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Dargghhh! Dumb article kill brain cell, me not understand big idea now. Me sad. If you like you brain maybe not read article more good. You is warn.
http://www.nolanchart.com/article4233.html
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| The fact that Barr is campaigning for president is the first reason not to support him. No individual actively seeking political office should receive support. |
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However, this does not make Barr virtuous. In order for him to curb government vice, he must partake in it for some time. Furthermore, Barr will not curb every government vice. For example, taxes � government sanctioned armed robbery. Therefore, he will always be participating in some government vice. Barr is well aware of this; thus, he is seeking vice.
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| The other problem with seeking political office is that it includes seeking power or control over others. Only vicious men seek power; thus, politicians should never be volunteers. Even Barr is seeking power. Reducing the government's infringement upon men's lives means the reducer has control of men's lives. For example, a firefighter, though reducing the flames, has control over whether or not the flames' victims live. |
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The final reason not to support Barr is because he is religious. Government employment should not require passing religious tests because that would make the government a theocracy, which is just another way to spell tyranny. However, political candidates should have to answer for their religious beliefs. They should explain why they believe in something without any evidence. Of course, there is no logical explanation; religion is inherently irrational. Therefore, Barr is irrational, especially in regards to his morality.
The core of a religion is its moral code. However, religion is irrational; thus, the morality that follows is irrational. Since every action is a moral action, every action committed by a religious person is based on irrationality. Consequently, supporting religious candidates for political offices is to support irrationality within the government � an institution requiring the utmost reason to function properly and virtuously.
Barr is clearly infinitely superior to the presumptive alternatives, Barack Obama and John McCain, but these points alone make him imperfect. Therefore, though Barr is the lesser of the evils, he is still evil; thus, supporting Barr is supporting vice. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:16 am Post subject: |
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Wow. Was that written by an ESL student?
Bob Barr is alright. My fake vote may go to him. |
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Pluto
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| Religion begets an irrational person which begets an irrational government? Aren't 98% of all federally elected officials religious? Seriously, the dude could worship goats for all I care and it wouldn't affect my vote one way or another. While I think bowing in front of goats is irrational, if not just completely silly, I'm not one to judge. As long as he promises to lower taxes and do his best to government out of my business, I'm all ears. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:04 am Post subject: ... |
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| The fact that Barr is campaigning for president is the first reason not to support him. No individual actively seeking political office should receive support. |
So, whoever wrote this wants to be president, eh? |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:27 am Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
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| The fact that Barr is campaigning for president is the first reason not to support him. No individual actively seeking political office should receive support. |
So, whoever wrote this wants to be president, eh? |
So, perhaps the appropriate corollary to this axiom would be:
No person who actively seeks to vote by registering or casting a ballot should be allowed to vote. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:36 am Post subject: |
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 This is probably the first thing I've read by a Libertarian that I've liked, although Mr. Paquin (Libertarian) missed the biggest reason not to vote for Bob Barr. Don't vote for Bob Barr because he is a Libertarian.
What appealed to me about the article was the logic. If you're going to be anti-government, then why stop halfway? Mr. Paquin took the anti-government position to a logical conclusion. Let's hope people of like mind remain virtuous and stay home on election day. |
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jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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Gaaaaaaaagggh! No govermment! No fire department! No police department! No plumbing! No power lines! No phone lines! No roads! No garbage pickup!
Libertarianism and the 18th Century: They go hand in hand. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| jkelly80 wrote: |
Gaaaaaaaagggh! No govermment! No fire department! No police department! No plumbing! No power lines! No phone lines! No roads! No garbage pickup!
Libertarianism and the 18th Century: They go hand in hand. |
Yeah, that's libertarianism. 
Edit: This article looks like it was written by some undergrad whose last reading was Plato's Republic. |
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jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| jkelly80 wrote: |
Gaaaaaaaagggh! No govermment! No fire department! No police department! No plumbing! No power lines! No phone lines! No roads! No garbage pickup!
Libertarianism and the 18th Century: They go hand in hand. |
Yeah, that's libertarianism.
Edit: This article looks like it was written by some undergrad whose last reading was Plato's Republic. |
I've read a fair amount of literature from Cato and co. and that's what most of it boils down to. Everything is open for the free market. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| jkelly80 wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| jkelly80 wrote: |
Gaaaaaaaagggh! No govermment! No fire department! No police department! No plumbing! No power lines! No phone lines! No roads! No garbage pickup!
Libertarianism and the 18th Century: They go hand in hand. |
Yeah, that's libertarianism.
Edit: This article looks like it was written by some undergrad whose last reading was Plato's Republic. |
I've read a fair amount of literature from Cato and co. and that's what most of it boils down to. Everything is open for the free market. |
Funny. I've read Cato a lot, and I don't remember them investing a lot of energy in getting rid of basic infrastructure and fire/police services. Public garbage pickup may be another story . . . |
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jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| jkelly80 wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| jkelly80 wrote: |
Gaaaaaaaagggh! No govermment! No fire department! No police department! No plumbing! No power lines! No phone lines! No roads! No garbage pickup!
Libertarianism and the 18th Century: They go hand in hand. |
Yeah, that's libertarianism.
Edit: This article looks like it was written by some undergrad whose last reading was Plato's Republic. |
I've read a fair amount of literature from Cato and co. and that's what most of it boils down to. Everything is open for the free market. |
Funny. I've read Cato a lot, and I don't remember them investing a lot of energy in getting rid of basic infrastructure and fire/police services. Public garbage pickup may be another story . . . |
I've read David Boaz's Libertarianism, and had a subscription to Reason for 2 years.
One of my favorite bits from Boaz was his defense of child labor in the 18th and 19th centuries, citing the fact that it prolonged the life expectancy of the children from five to ten or eleven years of age. Boaz is executive vice president of Cato. There are more choice nuggets in this book, but I don't have them handy.
Whether or not their 'energy' goes to railing against public works and infrastructure, the basic ideology of the movement is predicated on the notion that the government should only provide for the 'safety' (a vaguer caveat exists, I'm sure, but I haven't seen one in a while) of its citizens, and leave everything else to vagaries and predations of the free market. How could this not include the privatization of roads, plumbing, etc? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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Yes. Libertarianism see the role of government as a protector of persons/property etc and that the government role in the economy should be minimal, and only then in a regulatory capacity.
Cato is anti-war, against the drug war, way pro immigration and generally wants the government to stay within clear goalposts. I agree. |
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jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
Yes. Libertarianism see the role of government as a protector of persons/property etc and that the government role in the economy should be minimal, and only then in a regulatory capacity.
Cato is anti-war, against the drug war, way pro immigration and generally wants the government to stay within clear goalposts. I agree. |
Libertarianism sees no reason to regulate the working of children to death. The market will correct this eventually, apparently. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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Libertarianism isn't a thing, that breaths and speaks. It is a collection of ideas that span a rather large spectrum.
Anyways, child labour did not vanish in the UK etc because the state willed it so anymore than coke has vanished because the state willed it so. Child labour is terrible, but in a situation of dirt poverty, child labour is a source of income for a family. My grandfather grew up on a farm in rural, poor as *beep* Saskatchewan. He cleared brush for hours and hours as a child after their migration to Canada and only attended school to the grade of 6. His family needed his labour, and the labour of his 5 brothers, to survive. By modern standards, his dad used back breaking child labour. Now Canada is rich, and families do not do this. If they needed to, they would. And like with coke, the state would be unable to stop it all.
Of course every libertarian would like kids to go to school. We just aren't so naive to think that development happens overnight and isn't messy. |
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jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
Libertarianism isn't a thing, that breaths and speaks. It is a collection of ideas that span a rather large spectrum.
Anyways, child labour did not vanish in the UK etc because the state willed it so anymore than coke has vanished because the state willed it so. Child labour is terrible, but in a situation of dirt poverty, child labour is a source of income for a family. My grandfather grew up on a farm in rural, poor as *beep* Saskatchewan. He cleared brush for hours and hours as a child after their migration to Canada and only attended school to the grade of 6. His family needed his labour, and the labour of his 5 brothers, to survive. By modern standards, his dad used back breaking child labour. Now Canada is rich, and families do not do this. If they needed to, they would. And like with coke, the state would be unable to stop it all.
Of course every libertarian would like kids to go to school. We just aren't so naive to think that development happens overnight and isn't messy. |
I'm not naive enough to think that child labor should never exist. But it should be regulated. B/c if you're that desperate to work, you're easily exploited. But regulating labor and safety standards is not libertarian. |
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