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English English Teacher
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rusty1983



Joined: 30 Jan 2007

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:22 am    Post subject: English English Teacher Reply with quote

I am not really having a moral crisis here, but it has come to my attention over the last few months that Im making a living off the back of England's muderous empire.

I am not saying its right or wrong, but English seems 'superior' to me and going over the world teaching it is furthering that ideal.

Everywhere Ive worked I have seen teachers imposing western morality on top of teaching English.

But its good for me, I am making a decent living out of this and can see the industry expanding. I never thought of it as a career but from the boom I have seen lately think it could be a good idea.

But I dont know if I will always view it as making money from the British Empire, which was inherently immoral. And even then, the other reason (which may be more significant) is that America appears to be building a similar style empire, through similar means and people need to learn English because people need to do business with America, even though they make money through murder and corruption.

Is teaching English an immoral pursuit?
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spliff



Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, wait...let's flip a coin.
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knee-highs



Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Location: yes

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:32 am    Post subject: Re: English English Teacher Reply with quote

rusty1983 wrote:
I am not really having a moral crisis here, but it has come to my attention over the last few months that Im making a living off the back of England's muderous empire.

I am not saying its right or wrong, but English seems 'superior' to me and going over the world teaching it is furthering that ideal.

Everywhere Ive worked I have seen teachers imposing western morality on top of teaching English.

But its good for me, I am making a decent living out of this and can see the industry expanding. I never thought of it as a career but from the boom I have seen lately think it could be a good idea.

But I dont know if I will always view it as making money from the British Empire, which was inherently immoral. And even then, the other reason (which may be more significant) is that America appears to be building a similar style empire, through similar means and people need to learn English because people need to do business with America, even though they make money through murder and corruption.

Is teaching English an immoral pursuit?



and which suburb of Seattle did you grow up in? your logic has more holes than a Walmart in Holland...
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ED209



Joined: 17 Oct 2006

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:42 am    Post subject: Re: English English Teacher Reply with quote

rusty1983 wrote:

Is teaching English an immoral pursuit?


Yes, it is. Go home and leave people alone. Maybe you can sell socialist worker for a living.

Teachers will always express parts of their culture that may be at odds with their students'. To say they impose this culture upon others is a bit strong a bit 'Steve Schetizer' (or whatever his name is). What part of these teachers' morality exactly did they impose? Eat American beef?

Your comments on America and the British Empire as inherently immoral sound a bit like white guilt. Most companies work by exploitation but your murder and corruption claim is hyperbolic.

There are far more immoral things you can do here than teach English. I committed at least four immoral acts just this weekend and none of them concerned teaching English.

Perhaps you are right though and immoral hagwon owners are just some kind of karma for the actions of your ancestors. In which case carry on teaching and beating yourself up. Or you could just try and be a good teacher and help your students improve themselves through education.
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rusty1983



Joined: 30 Jan 2007

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah Im not too distressed by it but just wondering if it's an issue people wonder about. To be honest Im a sucker for believing in the more controversial theories when I hear them, its definitely one of my flaws.

And also, any guilt I may have is washed away by the fact that I dont really care enough to make a big hoo-ha about it. To be brutally honest I dont care if it is because of past wrong-doings, and Im loving teaching at the moment

I wasnt trying to have a pop at anyone just wondering what you thought or if you could enlighten me a little on the subject.

But I do like looking at the history of the language and trying to find out how and why it spread like it did. I dont claim to be anywhere near an expert on the subject though.


Last edited by rusty1983 on Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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rusty1983



Joined: 30 Jan 2007

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:34 am    Post subject: Re: English English Teacher Reply with quote

ED209 wrote:
rusty1983 wrote:

Is teaching English an immoral pursuit?


Yes, it is. Go home and leave people alone. Maybe you can sell socialist worker for a living.

Teachers will always express parts of their culture that may be at odds with their students'. To say they impose this culture upon others is a bit strong a bit 'Steve Schetizer' (or whatever his name is). What part of these teachers' morality exactly did they impose? Eat American beef?

Your comments on America and the British Empire as inherently immoral sound a bit like white guilt. Most companies work by exploitation but your murder and corruption claim is hyperbolic.

There are far more immoral things you can do here than teach English. I committed at least four immoral acts just this weekend and none of them concerned teaching English.

Perhaps you are right though and immoral hagwon owners are just some kind of karma for the actions of your ancestors. In which case carry on teaching and beating yourself up. Or you could just try and be a good teacher and help your students improve themselves through education.


I am at home. What you saying about American Beef? I dont get it.

Also, references to Walmart fall on deaf ears here cos Im English. Im pretty sure there arent any in Holland, but that is yet another example of the imperial mentality of many Yanks nowadays.
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eamo



Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
To be brutally honest I dont care if it is because of past wrong-doings,


The British empire wasn't a wrong-doing. Not in the moral codes of conduct of the 18th and 19th centuries. Any country worth it's salt tried to expand it's empire back then. It wasn't seen as evil. Just obivious.

Of course, with 21st century hindsight, we can see that empire-building harmed the colonized countires and caused endless political troubles, but, back in the day, empire-building was seen as spreading civilisation.


Worryingly, the use of English around the world has taken on a new tone recently. For example, in the muslim world, English is the voice of oppression.

George-frickin-Bush...........if only he could speak English well.
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browneyedgirl



Joined: 17 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:28 pm    Post subject: Re: English English Teacher Reply with quote

You could have the same argument for numerous languages: Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic etc.
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oskinny1



Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Location: Right behind you!

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:08 pm    Post subject: Re: English English Teacher Reply with quote

rusty1983 wrote:

I am at home. What you saying about American Beef? I dont get it.

Also, references to Walmart fall on deaf ears here cos Im English. Im pretty sure there arent any in Holland, but that is yet another example of the imperial mentality of many Yanks nowadays.


You don't know the issue with US beef and you are on this board?

No, there aren't any Walmarts in Holland, but there were in Germany last year (close enough). Walmart is an international company, why is it imperialistic to think that there might be one in Holland (though I don't think that is what she was trying to convey)?

They sell Tesco products in Korea...stupid imperialistic Brits. Rolling Eyes
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Otherside



Joined: 06 Sep 2007

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are teaching English in a large part because of the Economic superiority of countries which speak English.

The US, Canada, Aus and NZ owe their existance to the Murderous English Empire. If it wasn't for the colonizers, the US would be a large plain where the Native American (not up to date on the pc term here) population ruled the land and huge herds of bison roamed free.

Is the current situation better? You decide.
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ED209



Joined: 17 Oct 2006

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:49 am    Post subject: Re: English English Teacher Reply with quote

rusty1983 wrote:

I am at home. What you saying about American Beef? I dont get it.

Also, references to Walmart fall on deaf ears here cos Im English. Im pretty sure there arent any in Holland, but that is yet another example of the imperial mentality of many Yanks nowadays.


Plenty of people in England shop at Walmart, it is better known there as ASDA. Although ASDA is very different to a traditional Walmart. The Korean-American Beef issue is all over these boards, and has been also reported in the UK press. Although there are no Walmarts in Holland there is one in Holland, Ohio. But yes the beef issue is "another example of the imperial mentality of many Yanks nowadays", any more examples on American Imperialism from issues you admit to know nothing about?
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rusty1983



Joined: 30 Jan 2007

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:11 am    Post subject: Re: English English Teacher Reply with quote

[quote="oskinny1"]
rusty1983 wrote:





They sell Tesco products in Korea...stupid imperialistic Brits. Rolling Eyes


Ha ha ha, that made me laugh! Tesco is a f*cking evil empire in itself and is on the way to being much bigger than the British Empire ever was
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rusty1983



Joined: 30 Jan 2007

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:18 am    Post subject: Re: English English Teacher Reply with quote

ED209 wrote:
rusty1983 wrote:

I am at home. What you saying about American Beef? I dont get it.

Also, references to Walmart fall on deaf ears here cos Im English. Im pretty sure there arent any in Holland, but that is yet another example of the imperial mentality of many Yanks nowadays.


Plenty of people in England shop at Walmart, it is better known there as ASDA. Although ASDA is very different to a traditional Walmart. The Korean-American Beef issue is all over these boards, and has been also reported in the UK press. Although there are no Walmarts in Holland there is one in Holland, Ohio. But yes the beef issue is "another example of the imperial mentality of many Yanks nowadays", any more examples on American Imperialism from issues you admit to know nothing about?


I did not know Asda was part of Walmart! Asda's not bad but I prefer Aldi, its cheaper!

I dont want to start a big argument about American Imperialism, to be honest that was a joke. Im worried Im coming across really anti-American here and thats not my standpoint because I know there's good as well as bad with America.

Someone mentioned Spanish before and I have been thinking about that too, it is mad that all those countries in South America speak Spanish. I think if I were in one of those countries Id refuse to speak it and just use a more traditional language.

Someone also said that 'English is becoming the language of oppresion' but I think that has been happening for hundreds of years, with the slaves etc.
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tfunk



Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Location: Dublin, Ireland

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

England isn't really a colonial power any more, so you aren't perpetuating their empire, unless you've brought flags with you.

If you want to feel guilty about England's past, then feel guilty about the millions of people it enslaved, dispossessed etc. and the fact that you are English and are a product of previous generations of Englishmen.

Personally I wouldn't worry about it. As another poster suggested, if Chinese, Japanese, etc were the lingua franca of the day then the same so-called moral issues would arise.

If Ireland was bigger than England, then I'm sure we would've kicked your ass and made you eat potatoes and drink Guinness.

Human nature is pretty much the same, no matter what the colour of the flag. Worrying about moral issues without any possibility of meaningful action is just masterbat*on IMHO.
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Fresh Prince



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: The glorious nation of Korea

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think teaching English for profit in Korea is cultural Imperialsim. If we were doing it as part of a movement to replace Korean in favor of English that would be different but we are really only here at their whim. If they decide they no longer want foreigners teaching English in Korea all they have to do is stop giving out visas.

Culture is part of learning any language though. I would never have been able to learn another language as well as I did if I didn't have a native teacher while in university. Aside from improving my pronounciation, I learned cultural things that weren't in any books, just from observation of my teachers' behavior and discussions about how they do a lot of things different where they are from.
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