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wayfarer
Joined: 05 Jun 2007
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 Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:09 am Post subject: my hagwon closed |
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Right after New Years, 4.5 months into my contract, the owner told all the teachers that the business is finished. We all knew the school had been losing money for a long time and it didn't come as a huge surprise.
He claims that he can help find me a new job with return airfare and severence. He wrote me a nice reference letter and is paying January's rent. People have also been telling me it should be easy to find something by myself. At the moment I'm just a little unsure about the legal situation. I think the guy said that he is not going to contact Immigration about the closing of the school. Is my original E2 visa going to be ok with a new school until August, when it expires? Maybe it will be an advantage for a school, since they won't have to go through the hoops of getting a new teacher into the country under the new visa rules? Will most employers be ok with hiring me without the bother of getting me a new E2 visa?
Feedback? thanks.
Last edited by wayfarer on Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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wayfarer
Joined: 05 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| and, oh... he gave us two days' notice that the school is closed, and says he cannot give us severance payment. That doesn't bother me so much if I can get a new job soon, but... |
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Dodgy Al
Joined: 15 May 2004
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:24 am Post subject: |
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This happened to me about a month ago. But we had the luxury of a whole week's notice. Lucky us!
My situation is different to yours however, becasue my contract was coming to an end anyway. So I just decided to get outta dodge early. A couple of weeks after the school closed, I got a phone call from my (ex) boss, demading that I go to immigration 'NOW!'
So three days later, we went to immigration, where they confiscated my alien card, and gave me a piece of A4 paper in return. This was my EXIT ORDER, which stated that I had to leave within 30 days. I was a little concerned that they were going to give me a bollocking or something, but it was all fine. As an aside, I have never had a bad experience at immigration - must be one of the lucky few!
Anyway, getting back to your predicament. I believe the other teachers at my school secured a letter of release because they wanted to stay in Korea. They are now working in other jobs, and are quite happy I think. Your current E2 visa will not be okay at another school, but a desperate school may hire you as an illegal. Not an option I personally recommend, but I'm not really one to throw caution to the wind.
Anyway, I hope my garbled nonsense helps. I'm sure there are other options which others will advise. But in a nutshell - get an LoR.
And pursue your severance pay - it's your money! |
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Whistleblower
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:31 am Post subject: |
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Please note that you are able to sue him for violation of conditions of employment, or 60 days notice with the employees within the business (Article 31:3). Good luck.
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Article 26 (Violation of Conditions of Employment)
(1) If any of the conditions of employment set forth in accordance with Article 24 is found to be inconsistent with the actual conditions, the worker concerned shall be entitled to claim damages resulting from the breach of the conditions of employment or may terminate the labor contract forthwith.
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Article 31 (Restriction on Dismissal for Managerial Reasons)
(1) If an employer wants to dismiss a worker for managerial reasons, there shall be urgent managerial needs. In such cases as transfer, acquisition and merger of business which are aimed to avoid financial difficulties, it shall be deemed that there is an urgent managerial need.
(2) In the case of paragraph (1), an employer shall make every effort to avoid dismissal of workers and shall select workers to be dismissed by establishing rational and fair standards of dismissal. In such cases, there shall be no discrimination on the ground of gender.
(3) With regard to the possible methods for avoiding dismissal and the criteria for dismissal as referred to in paragraph (2), an employer shall give a notice 60 days prior to dismissal day to a trade union which is formed by the consent of the majority of all workers in the business or workplace concerned(or to a person representing the majority of all workers if such trade union does not exist, hereinafter referred to as a �workers� representative�) and have sincere consultation.
(4) When an employer intends to dismiss more than a certain number of workers which is defined by the Presidential Decree under the conditions as referred to in paragraph (1), he/she shall report it to the Minister of Labor as determined by the Presidential Decree.
(5) In cases where an employer has dismissed workers in accordance with the requirements as stipulated in paragraphs (1) to (3), it shall be deemed that the dismissal concerned is made based on the justifiable reasons in accordance with paragraph (1) of Article 30. <This Article Wholly Amended by Act No. 5510, Feb. 20, 1998>
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Article 32 (Advance Notice of Dismissal)
(1) An employer shall give an advance notice to a worker at least thirty days before dismissal(including dismissal for managerial reasons). If the notice is not given thirty days before the dismissal, normal wages for more than thirty days shall be paid to the worker, except in cases, prescribed by the Ordinance of the Ministry of Labor, where it is impossible to continue a business because of natural disaster, calamity, or other unavoidable causes, or where a worker has caused considerable difficulties to a business, or damage to properties on purpose. <Amended by Act No. 5885, Feb. 8, 1999> |
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moosehead
Joined: 05 May 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: my hagwon closed |
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| wayfarer wrote: |
Right after New Years, 4.5 months into my contract, the owner told all the teachers that the business is finished. We all knew the school had been losing money for a long time and it didn't come as a huge surprise.
He claims that he can help find me a new job with return airfare and severence. He wrote me a nice reference letter and is paying January's rent. People have also been telling me it should be easy to find something by myself. At the moment I'm just a little unsure about the legal situation. I think the guy said that he is not going to contact Immigration about the closing of the school. Is my original E2 visa going to be ok with a new school until August, when it expires? Maybe it will be an advantage for a school, since they won't have to go through the hoops of getting a new teacher into the country under the new visa rules? Will most employers be ok with hiring me without the bother of getting me a new E2 visa?
Feedback? thanks. |
first of all, you don't have any redress with Labor because you needed to be here for 6 months on that particular job before the 60 day notice goes into effect.
I had a school close after 3 months once, they gave us all a LOR and didn't call immi - I went to immi myself to see what options I had and they said he didn't cancel my visa so don't worry. when I found another job tho they did send me to Japan because it was a hakwon.
I say that because it's different for public schools. if you don't want to go thru all the crap going on right now for new visa apps, you might want to consider a public school position. they can transfer your visa w/o you having to apply for a new one. you'll still need to do their requirements, they'll give you the forms for a med check, etc., and a criminal background check, but hopefully you won't have to go back to your home country for all that.
also I moved into a goshiwon until I got settled. there are options if you don't want to leave the country immediately. |
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yingwenlaoshi
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: ... location, location!
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| He can't do a damn thing about it. The guy's gone out of business. Besides it sounds like he's getting paid for his work. Plus I'm pretty sure you can be fired without notice anytime before you've worked 6 months. Either way. |
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GoNorth
Joined: 09 Dec 2007
Location: south korea
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| I love the article 31 quote, but it is slightly off. Having dealt with a "closing" before Christmas. According to Labor (at Gwacheon) 60 days isn't the rule - 30 is. Moreover, when a school files for actual closing of the business all contracts are null and void - even if it is total bs. You are able to get your 30 days pay and severence percentage, but a lot of other stuff is out the window. You can go thru the labor process - up to 3 months/hire a lawyer/or get what you can and jet. |
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wayfarer
Joined: 05 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| so I can't just have Immi transfer my E2 visa to a new school? if I have a letter of release? |
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marckot
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Location: Mokpo
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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This happened to me last year 8 months into my contract. It was not too difficult to organize a new job.
My school gave me a letter of release and they called immigration to explain my situation to them. Just make sure that your boss does not accidentally cancel your E2 visa because the school closed. That happened to me. Luckily immi understood the situation.
When I found a new job the school type up a letter stating they wanted me as a teacher. They took these two documents to immigration and my E2 visa was transferred from the old school to the new one.
Your boss has to let immigration know the school closed down. He does not have a choice because he needs to give you a release letter and call immigration to explain what is going on. They will call him anyway if you show up at immi with a release letter.
Good luck and don't worry too much. |
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moosehead
Joined: 05 May 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| wayfarer wrote: |
| so I can't just have Immi transfer my E2 visa to a new school? if I have a letter of release? |
it's not up to you whether or not to transfer your visa - it's immi's decision
like i said before - public schools can do it a lot easier because they are govt entities and they also hang on to spending money (for visa runs) like it was coming out of their own pockets - well it probably is, actually, the less they spend on teachers the more can go to their little slush funds.
at any rate, a LOR just gives you the free and clear to work somewhere else - it's nothing to do with transferring your visa and where you will be working
a well established hakwon might have pull enough to get it transferred - but again, it's just iffy - you'll just have to chance it - your visa is relatively new, like mine was, so don't worry, just beware if you DO get an exit order to make sure you don't overstay it. when my school closed i didn't get one, again, they never told immi about any of us. |
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regicide
Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Location: United States
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Whistleblower wrote: |
Please note that you are able to sue him for violation of conditions of employment, or 60 days notice with the employees within the business (Article 31:3). Good luck.
| Quote: |
Article 26 (Violation of Conditions of Employment)
(1) If any of the conditions of employment set forth in accordance with Article 24 is found to be inconsistent with the actual conditions, the worker concerned shall be entitled to claim damages resulting from the breach of the conditions of employment or may terminate the labor contract forthwith.
...
Article 31 (Restriction on Dismissal for Managerial Reasons)
(1) If an employer wants to dismiss a worker for managerial reasons, there shall be urgent managerial needs. In such cases as transfer, acquisition and merger of business which are aimed to avoid financial difficulties, it shall be deemed that there is an urgent managerial need.
(2) In the case of paragraph (1), an employer shall make every effort to avoid dismissal of workers and shall select workers to be dismissed by establishing rational and fair standards of dismissal. In such cases, there shall be no discrimination on the ground of gender.
(3) With regard to the possible methods for avoiding dismissal and the criteria for dismissal as referred to in paragraph (2), an employer shall give a notice 60 days prior to dismissal day to a trade union which is formed by the consent of the majority of all workers in the business or workplace concerned(or to a person representing the majority of all workers if such trade union does not exist, hereinafter referred to as a �workers� representative�) and have sincere consultation.
(4) When an employer intends to dismiss more than a certain number of workers which is defined by the Presidential Decree under the conditions as referred to in paragraph (1), he/she shall report it to the Minister of Labor as determined by the Presidential Decree.
(5) In cases where an employer has dismissed workers in accordance with the requirements as stipulated in paragraphs (1) to (3), it shall be deemed that the dismissal concerned is made based on the justifiable reasons in accordance with paragraph (1) of Article 30. <This Article Wholly Amended by Act No. 5510, Feb. 20, 1998>
...
Article 32 (Advance Notice of Dismissal)
(1) An employer shall give an advance notice to a worker at least thirty days before dismissal(including dismissal for managerial reasons). If the notice is not given thirty days before the dismissal, normal wages for more than thirty days shall be paid to the worker, except in cases, prescribed by the Ordinance of the Ministry of Labor, where it is impossible to continue a business because of natural disaster, calamity, or other unavoidable causes, or where a worker has caused considerable difficulties to a business, or damage to properties on purpose. <Amended by Act No. 5885, Feb. 8, 1999> |
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This is a small business that closed because it was losing money. This in when I believe some posters here have no concept of reality. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| wayfarer wrote: |
| so I can't just have Immi transfer my E2 visa to a new school? if I have a letter of release? |
Get a LOR if you can. It's the only way you can be sure you're in the clear. If he's paying your January rent and paid to fly you over in the first place you're doing all right as far as business closures go. |
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regicide
Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Location: United States
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| wayfarer wrote: |
| so I can't just have Immi transfer my E2 visa to a new school? if I have a letter of release? |
If he's paying your January rent and paid to fly you over in the first place you're doing all right as far as business closures go. |
Indeed.
It is all right here in the OP.
| wayfarer wrote: |
| Right after New Years, 4.5 months into my contract, the owner told all the teachers that the business is finished. We all knew the school had been losing money for a long time and it didn't come as a huge surprise. |
The OP is here in Korea by way of the bankrupt hogwan and has a month to get his affairs in order. If it didn't come as a surprise then money should have been set aside in these past four and a half months for the transition. As long as he gets a LOR , he should be in pretty good shape if he or she saved some of their salary these past months. |
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wayfarer
Joined: 05 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| moosehead wrote: |
| wayfarer wrote: |
| so I can't just have Immi transfer my E2 visa to a new school? if I have a letter of release? |
it's not up to you whether or not to transfer your visa - it's immi's decision
like i said before - public schools can do it a lot easier because they are govt entities and they also hang on to spending money (for visa runs) like it was coming out of their own pockets - well it probably is, actually, the less they spend on teachers the more can go to their little slush funds.
at any rate, a LOR just gives you the free and clear to work somewhere else - it's nothing to do with transferring your visa and where you will be working
a well established hakwon might have pull enough to get it transferred - but again, it's just iffy - you'll just have to chance it - your visa is relatively new, like mine was, so don't worry, just beware if you DO get an exit order to make sure you don't overstay it. when my school closed i didn't get one, again, they never told immi about any of us. |
I have my letter of release; got it today. The bottom line for me is that I want to stay and work in Korea until August and I would prefer to work legally, but mostly I just want to stay and work. I suppose I could do under-the-table part time stuff and privates, but I prefer the stability of a full time gig. And I definitely don't want to have to fly anywhere.
This was just a really small school owned by a hogwon hobbyist who seemed to have no idea what he was doing or how to run a business. So he doesn't care about whether he calls Immi or not, but he would if I asked him to. Given that, would it be safer to find a school that will take me without transferring my visa? How likely is it that Immi is going to refuse to let me work somewhere else, now that the school is bankrupt, and why would they do so?
Thanks for all your replies...
| Quote: |
This happened to me last year 8 months into my contract. It was not too difficult to organize a new job.
My school gave me a letter of release and they called immigration to explain my situation to them. Just make sure that your boss does not accidentally cancel your E2 visa because the school closed. That happened to me. Luckily immi understood the situation.
When I found a new job the school type up a letter stating they wanted me as a teacher. They took these two documents to immigration and my E2 visa was transferred from the old school to the new one.
Good luck and don't worry too much. |
Thank you. Can anyone second that ? .... |
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regicide
Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Location: United States
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:23 am Post subject: |
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I am thinking about working in a Talking club , but the school is new and has only about 40 students. Should I be concerned about that?
Last edited by regicide on Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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