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spliff
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand
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 Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:57 pm Post subject: Serbia captures fugitive Radovan Karadzic |
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/
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Bosnian Serb war crimes suspect Radovan Karadzic, one of the world's most wanted men, has been arrested in Serbia after more than a decade.
He has been brought before Belgrade's war crimes court, in accordance with a law on cooperation the Hague Tribunal, the Serbian presidency said.
The Bosnian Serb wartime political leader disappeared in 1996.
He had been indicted by the UN tribunal for war crimes and genocide over the 1995 massacre at Srebrenica.
His wartime military leader, Ratko Mladic, remains at large.
"Radovan Karadzic was located and arrested tonight" by Serbian security officers, a statement by the office of President Boris Tadic said, without giving details.
"Karadzic was brought to the investigative judge of the War Crimes Court in Belgrade, in accordance with the law on cooperation with the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia."
Karadzic denial
Mr Karadzic denied the charges against him soon after the first indictment and refused to recognise the legitimacy of the UN tribunal.
The UN says Mr Karadzic's forces killed at least 7,500 Muslim men and boys from Srebrenica in July 1995 as part of a campaign to "terrorise and demoralise the Bosnian Muslim and Bosnian Croat population".
He was also charged over the shelling of Sarajevo, and the use of 284 UN peacekeepers as human shields in May and June 1995.
After the Dayton accord that ended the Bosnian war, the former nationalist president went into hiding.
International pressure to catch Mr Karadzic mounted in spring 2005 when several of his former generals surrendered and a video of Bosnian Serb soldiers shooting captives from Srebrenica shocked television viewers in former Yugoslavia. |
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spliff
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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He's an interesting person, but unfortunately, also a very bad man. Here's where he's been hiding:
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Karadzic now has a long beard. He wears the monk�s dress but his physical appearance has not changed: he�s not renounced the grizzled tuft. He is living in the Orthodox monasteries. He frequently moves in 3 different monasteries:
- Trebinje (in Herzegovina);
- Ostrog (in Montenegro);
- Fruska Gora (in Vojvodina, Serbia);
He is accused of genocide, war crimes and murder. For his colleague Mladic the situation is changed when he was stopped by the police and now he is in Belgrade, checked by the Serbian secret police. He�ll be used for negotiations about Kosovo�s future.
Now the international secret service has a lot information about Karadzic. Before, their work was slowed by political interests. The intelligence services lost a lot of time in the past and now 24 hours of work at day are not in enough to catch him.
A NATO general says, �For the first time we have a lot of accurate information about him, the true hunting starts now. In order to understand the reality around this killer we can divide his life in different phases�:
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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Fa la la la la, fa la la, fa la la, fa la la la la la la.
Thank God that rotten bastard is finally caught. Let's hope the Serbian government has the cajones to hand him over to the proper authorities, instead of trying him in their own corrupt system, which could only mean acquital.
This is a great first step. We'll see what happens next. |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| daskalos wrote: |
Fa la la la la, fa la la, fa la la, fa la la la la la la.
Thank God that rotten bastard is finally caught. Let's hope the Serbian government has the cajones to hand him over to the proper authorities, instead of trying him in their own corrupt system, which could only mean acquital.
This is a great first step. We'll see what happens next. |
There are politicians and generals out there that have done the same or worse...and are still in office.
If the hague wants cred it could arrest several world leaders, for a kick off! |
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Neil
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:03 am Post subject: |
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| A lot of these war criminals have been living openly for years, I reckon Serbia is getting serious in arresting them for brownie points that'll help gain EU membership, more will follow. |
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spliff
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:39 am Post subject: |
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| nautilus wrote: |
| daskalos wrote: |
Fa la la la la, fa la la, fa la la, fa la la la la la la.
Thank God that rotten bastard is finally caught. Let's hope the Serbian government has the cajones to hand him over to the proper authorities, instead of trying him in their own corrupt system, which could only mean acquital.
This is a great first step. We'll see what happens next. |
There are politicians and generals out there that have done the same or worse...and are still in office.
If the hague wants cred it could arrest several world leaders, for a kick off! |
Ur kidding, and they're wanted by the Hague for major war crimes. I would think they'd have to be in deep hiding. The ones "that have done the same or worse" why haven't they been charged, arrested and brought to justice. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Neil wrote: |
| A lot of these war criminals have been living openly for years, I reckon Serbia is getting serious in arresting them for brownie points that'll help gain EU membership, more will follow. |
This man is basically not the worst man in the world. So many leaders are responsible for crimes one could argue. I am glad he is going to face trial, but you could argue that Zimbabwe's Mugabe and Sudan's Omar Bashir should face trial. Some may say that about a certain Western leader, but he wasn't involved in genocide. |
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spliff
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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Sadam just his just desserts for gassing the Kurds an attempted genocide.  |
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patongpanda
Joined: 06 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| spliff wrote: |
| Sadam just his just desserts for gassing the Kurds an attempted genocide. |
Not quite, Spliffy old chap:
Saddam was brought to trial under the Iraqi interim government set up by U.S.-led forces. On November 5, 2006, he was convicted of charges related to the executions of 148 Iraqi Shi'ites suspected of planning an assassination attempt against him, and was sentenced to death by hanging. Saddam was executed on December 30, 2006
Interestingly:
Iraq is now the world's fourth highest user of the death penalty, human rights group Amnesty International has said.
At least 270 people have been sentenced to death since mid-2004, often after unfair trials the report says, and more than 100 people have been hanged.
plus �a change mon fr�re.
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| patongpanda wrote: |
| spliff wrote: |
| Sadam just his just desserts for gassing the Kurds an attempted genocide. |
Not quite, Spliffy old chap:
Saddam was brought to trial under the Iraqi interim government set up by U.S.-led forces. On November 5, 2006, he was convicted of charges related to the executions of 148 Iraqi Shi'ites suspected of planning an assassination attempt against him, and was sentenced to death by hanging. Saddam was executed on December 30, 2006
Interestingly:
Iraq is now the world's fourth highest user of the death penalty, human rights group Amnesty International has said.
At least 270 people have been sentenced to death since mid-2004, often after unfair trials the report says, and more than 100 people have been hanged.
plus �a change mon fr�re.
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Was the death penalty used less when Saddam was in power? You didn't mention that. I don't think it's the U.S.'s fault if Iraq is executing a lot of people. Is it? I suppose you could sort of argue that since the US is the occupying power, but it can't impose itself on the Iraqi powers that be without serious consequences. |
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patongpanda
Joined: 06 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| I read an article about Abu Ghraib, which mentioned some prisoners were handed over by the US troops to be hanged. Can't remember all the details... ah yes it's coming back a little bit... It was about how some of the guards and interrogators involved in A.G and Guantanomo were suffering psychologically and that 'aggressive interrogation' techniques aren't such a good thing because of the negative effects on the soldiers who have to carry it out. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:02 am Post subject: |
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Canada's George Jonas has an interesting take on this. Not sure I agree or disagree.
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Beware of political activists in robes
If we take Radovan Karadzic at his own evaluation as a Serbian patriot, by being available to be captured and handed over to the international tribunals of the new world order, he's rendering his country the only service left for him to render.
Had he not gone into hiding in 1995 after being indicted for his role in the infamous Srebrenica massacre of 8,000 Muslim men and boys, the one-timepresident of Serbian Bosnia couldn't be utilized as a chip in the Faustian bargain with theWest today.
But as Mr. Karadzic had gone into hiding, he could be, and he is.
Ivan Vejvoda, director of the Balkan Trust for Democracy, has been quoted as calling Mr. Karadzic's arrest a clear signal "this [Serb] government is determined to take this country into Europe."
Defeated, reduced and ostracized, Serbia has been pressing its nose against the shop window of the European Union. Its wallet empty, its credit in tatters, it has had nothing to trade in exchange for the opulent goods on display. The one-time cock of the Balkan walk has fallen on evil times. Tired of being a pariah among nations for trying to retain its dominant position in the Yugoslav federation during the 1990s, the country is keen to return to the fold.
It's not easy. Europe is skeptical. Having tried to hang on to its regional dominance mercilessly, often to the point of inhumanity, Serbia has sowed the wind and reaped the whirlwind. Now just about the only items of value it has left are its alleged war criminals.
In 2001, Serbia's then-prime minister, Zoran Djindjich, traded the first one. Ex-president Slobodan Milosevic, a. k. a. the Butcher of the Balkans, went for about US$1-billion. Dying of heart failure in 2006, before a war crimes tribunal could arrive at a determination in his case, Mr. Milosevic had the consolation of surviving the man who traded him. Mr. Djindjich was assassinated in 2003.
Now Serbia is offering up a man described as "the worst" by Richard Holbrooke, the American diplomat who brokered the 1995 Dayton accords that ended the war in Bosnia. How long will President Boris Tadic, who is trading Mr. Karadzic this week, survive him? That's anybody's guess.
Why -- one may ask -- are alleged war criminals bargaining chips? What value is there for the West in having them available for show trials? The answer lies in liberal illusions combining with fashion to allow power politics to masquerade as justice. "There is no better tribute to the victims of the war's atrocities than bringing their perpetrators to justice," said a White House communique, commenting on Mr. Karadzic's arrest.
But will a tribunal in a case like this achieve justice? I wonder. I've no soft spot, to put it mildly, for alleged war criminals. But political activists dressing up in black robes worry me just as much.
In the Netherlands, war crimes trials are becoming something of an industry. A few years ago student "jurists" of a moot court in the renowned Hague Academy of International Law invited the press while they were questioning an actor in the prisoner's dock, wearing a cocked hat and a gold-studded coat.
"Are you Napoleon Bonaparte, born August 15, 1769, in Ajaccio, Corsica?"
" Oui!"
"How do you plead?" " Non coupable!"
On this particular day, the moot court acquitted Napoleon of war crimes and crimes against humanity. The actor in the cocked hat looked relieved. However, as the Times of India pointed out, the mock trial "offered a flavour of what may be in store for tomorrow's leaders -- and not only megalomaniac dictators."
At a recent conference on Terror and Human Rights at Israel's Interdisciplinary Centre Herzliya, Harvard University's Alan Dershowitz advised Israel not to appear before the United Nation's International Court of Justice.
"It is an insult to kangaroos to call the ICJ a kangaroo court," Prof. Dershowitz said.
As one who has been insulting kangaroos for years, it gratified me to see the renowned legal expert's remark. My view has always been that international tribunals were kangaroo courts, not only in relation to the ICJ and Israel, but in general.
What is a war crime? NATO bombed Serbia into giving up Kosovo. The province's ethnic Albanians undoubtedly wanted independence--but so did the ethnic Germans of the Sudetenland. It's not so easy to see why dismembering Czechoslovakia in 1938 was a war crime and dismembering Serbia in 1999 wasn't. Or rather it's all too easy to see: Politics.
There's no international law, it seems to me, only international politics, and the proper place for politics is summit meetings, legislative chambers, diplomatic receptions, or battlefields. It certainly isn't courtrooms. UN-type judicial bodies won't increase confidence in justice, only erode confidence in the law.
In his book Does America Need a Foreign Policy?, Henry Kissinger concludes that the 1648 Treaty of Westphalia with its concepts of national interest, sovereignty, and balance of power, despite their flaws, cannot be abandoned with impunity. "When moral principles are applied without regard to historical conditions, the result is usually an increase in suffering rather than its amelioration," he writes. Reformers of all stripes should listen. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| It's simple. Serbia's old military guard is out of power, and the last time someone was traded in like that, a president was shot, but the new government has enough power to where the president wouldn't have to worry about that. The president also had a new intelligence officer at the head. Serbia doesn't want to be the only country not part of the EU in the Balkans. |
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spliff
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:03 am Post subject: |
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| patongpanda wrote: |
| I read an article about Abu Ghraib, which mentioned some prisoners were handed over by the US troops to be hanged. Can't remember all the details... ah yes it's coming back a little bit... It was about how some of the guards and interrogators involved in A.G and Guantanomo were suffering psychologically and that 'aggressive interrogation' techniques aren't such a good thing because of the negative effects on the soldiers who have to carry it out. |
Oh well, u don't get "hanged" for being a good guy, do u?  |
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idiotinkorea
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| Oh well, u don't get "hanged" for being a good guy, do u? |
the ancients said: "make love, not war!"
i say: "bang, don't hang!"
and after 1 year being here: "fcuk seks!" |
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