Korean Job Discussion Forums

[RoyBatty]

I know there's been a lot of talk about CDI (Chung Dahm Institute) on this message board, but a lot of the information seems kind of dated, so it would be nice to hear from some current CDI teachers or from people with recent experience there. Hell, it would be nice to hear from anyone on this board, because this is my first post and I'm pretty much in the dark here.

Anyway, I've been in talks with CDI, and have been offered an hourly wage of US $33 for a position in Seoul (which is where I requested to be), with a minimum 24 hour work week, although it is supposedly very easy to get extra hours. I'll be working in one of the main branches, not a franchise, which, from what I've read, should lower my chances of being screwed over or abused.

I graduated undergrad in May, and have no experience teaching English, but I'm from a top university.

Granted, I'll have to pay for my own housing in Seoul, and CDI will only reimburse me up to $1000 for my flight there, $33 an hour still seems like a really good deal. At 30 hours a week, that's 4 million KRW a month, or $47,530 per year. I'll most likely be working 40 hours a week as I'm interested in saving a lot of money, so a year of that will bring in $63,360.

Subtract $700 a month for rent (that's a reasonable rent estimate for a halfway decent place in Seoul, right?), and $500 for food and lifestyle expenses and I'm still looking at around $48 k in the bank at the end of the year. Other expenses should be medical coverage, which isn't provided, and whatever weekend travel I decide on.

Are there any glaring omissions in my estimates? Am I being naive about this? Being able to save $48 k in a year, working 40 hours a week sounds too good to be true, so maybe smack me back to reality?

I can live with the 7 unpaid vacation days a year, and the lack of pension isn't a big deal to me. This is independent contracting work, after all. My goal is really to save as much money as possible while working between 30 to 40 hours a week while having time to explore the city, culture, and music scene.

CDI people, how has your experience been with this school? From what I've read it seems like it's hard work, good pay, and most importantly, honest directors who won't shiest you out of pay. Any thoughts?

[cdninkorea]

The lack of medical coverage and pension are illegal, but if you don't care and don't complain to the government, no one will ever know about it. You can buy your own medical coverage anyway and it's not expensive.

Sounds like a decent deal. I don't know how much prep work is required at CDI, but 40 teaching hours is a lot. Maybe others with CDI experience can help more.

[majolica]

it sounds too good to be true for a few reasons.

a) when they're getting more work out of most of their employees for less, why are they suddenly being so generous?
b) you may be slightly underestimating the cost of apartments in Seoul, plus, are you aware of "key money"? you need to find out if the school is ready to help you with that deposit, or you're going to need to come to Korea with a sizable chunk of savings to hand over (usually several thousands of dollars).
c) are you sure that they are not making a distinction between hourly wage "teaching" and hourly wage "being at the school"? if you're only getting paid for teaching hours, don't imagine you'll be able to teach 40 hours. for one, they may be requiring you to put in a certain amount of prep per teaching hour, and you will actually go crazy if you try to teach non-stop for 8 hours a day.
d) what other work would they be requiring you to do as part of your "duties"? this is usually the killer in hagwon jobs... the unpaid work (calling students, marking papers, attending camps/parties/meetings). you obviously have a little more leverage by having an hourly wage rather than a salary, but i imagine they have leverage by not giving you the hours you want.
e) the other concern is what happens if you don't get 24 hours? will that guarantee be written in to the contract? i've worked at shit hourly jobs at home where the manager "guarantees" a certain number of hours, but before you know it, you're down to 10 hours a week. I would make my calculations based on the minimum alone, not what hours i hoped to be making, and see if i still liked it. you've made yours on 30, i'd change that to 24.
f) do you get any kind of sick days? with no paid vacation, no health insurance and no sick days, you could seriously *beep* up your earning potential for the month with even a minor injury or sickness.

be especially careful when you read over the contact they give you... you are entering into potentially dangerous waters here.

[ldh2222]

[machellebelle]

I know a few people who work for CDI and they said it isn't a bad place to work for, but they definitely underestimated their need for a vacation. It's a tiring job, and it may not seem like it now, but you'll feel it when your buddies are roaming about Asia and you're in glorious Seoul all summer.

The thing I don't like about how it's worded is that it's a *minimum* of 24 hours. What's to say they only give you those 24 hours? Then how much do you make a month? And it's illegal, on an E-2 visa, for you get another job.
Also, when do you max out? What if you end up teaching 80 hours? The money will be nice, but burnout!

But all this is my opinion, who knows

[A2Steve]

I'm guessing Berkley. Sounds like when I sat in on an info session in Ann Arbor for overseas teaching, and some of the go-getter types were HOUNDING the woman who taught with the DoD for info re: getting a teaching gig with them. Talk about rats at a food bar without a clue.

If you can swing that much loot, God bless ya. I'm sure there are obstacles you can't even dream of right now though. You can bank some money here, but dreams of walking out with a wheelbarrel of loot will only lead to disappointment I imagine. Not to mention wanting to pull your or someone's hair out at the end.

For further advice, please see: THE TREASURE OF THE SIERRA MADRE.

[RoyBatty]

Wow, this is some helpful info. I suppose I should add that I will actually be teaching on an F-4 visa (my mom's Korean, dad's white. Still don't know a lick of Korean though), so even if I don't get as many hours as I like, I could do privates without fear of legal repercussion (right?).

And yes, A2Steve, indeed I am a Berkeley grad. How'd ya guess? I'm thinking that's why I'm being offered a few dollars more than the average hourly wage. I'm also hoping I can leverage this by asking for higher rates on privates ("oooh, you went to berkery?!").

I"m going into this with an open mind, and eyes wide open. I know it's very unlikely I'll be leaving after a year with $48k in the bank. My goal is actually to save $30k, which should be feasible if I work privates on top of my CDI schedule. I guess the key is not to burn out.

[johnsom827]

My wife and I are moving to Seoul in Januray 2009 and are also thinking about working for CDI in Seoul. I have been looking all over this site for posts from someone who is currently working in Seoul for CDI but have not found much.

I was under the impression that the teaching hours at CDI were from 4:00 pm to 10:00 pm (2 three hour classes) Monday-Saturday and the average teacher works 4 to 5 days a week which would be 24 to 30 hours. And this would not include any unpaid time outside of class which might be another 4 or 5 hours a week.

Anyway, RoyBatty I would appreciate it if you would PM when you get a chance. I would like to get some advice from you about applying to CDI.

Thanks for the post.

[KoreanAmbition]

[KoreanAmbition]

OP,

First question. What's your degree in?

You NEED NEED NEED to find out which courses you would be teaching and which ones require prep time. That's the major issue you will deal with for burnout.

To be honest, if you have 2 days off per week I wouldn't even worry about burnout. You're young, so burnout shouldn't exist, especially with the work expectations you already have. Don't worry about it in my opinion.

From the sounds of it, and based on what I've read in the past, you should probably count on about 30 hours per week. I think your salary is among the higher salaries that I've read about at CDI so I think if you want the chance to earn good money then you are getting it.

The problem is that CDI is a business, and you don't have any teaching experience. Therefore, I will be quite certain that your Berkeley degree will only go so far and you'll need a lot more experience and client satisfaction before you get the chance to work a lot more hours. In fact, that's a regular way businesses operate; they give extra classes to the teachers that can draw the most students. You can get there, you just need time. Also, in the early going, don't think they won't take Joe Shmow working for $28 an hour to fill classes instead of you at $33.

Finally, even if you feel you can work more hours, you can trust that CDI won't. At least not until you prove it. They will not want you working 40 hours a week because they'll worry you'll burnout and then they lose an employee before you were naturally supposed to leave.

But who cares:

30 hours per week at $33 per hour = $1000 per week basically.

That's 52,000 per year (minus the weakening won versus USD) so probably $50,000 USD in pocket.

You'll spend at LEAST $700 per month for mediocre rent and then another $500 on spending for sure. So that's $18000 and then add another $2000 for small things you didn't count on, as well as getting established with some furniture. So all in all that's $20,000 in expenses which will leave you where you estimated, at about $30,000 in savings.

Yeah, you can get privates, but I don't think they'll be sucking your %*#@ as much as you think. Yeah you have a Berkeley degree, but you still gotta find work. Also, don't assume you'll find some old guy that just wants to speak Korean with you over coffee for 50,000 an hour and you'll just walk 2 blocks for it. If you're making 50,000 per hour you'll have to keep your customer happy, and that means prepping in some way. Also, you will probably have to commute and that will take time on both sides of the lesson.

Privates will increase your savings, but also cut into your sanity time.

However, I can tell you that I think you should have no problem teaching the amount of hours you are looking for, but just realize it will become draining as the year goes on.

My opinion is to plan about 2 or 3 times through the year to tone things down and just do the basic requirements of 24 hours a week. Those months will feel like a vacation for you. It will also refuel your energy to go back and pound out several 30+ hour weeks in a row.

Dropping to 24 hours a week for a month just takes $1000 off your annual salary, so figure 3 times to reduce the stress will still leave you with $27000 plus income from all your private lessons.

Don't burn out, don't lose your job, and don't slack off. You need to get renewed or at least a good reference, so just focus on that. The money will come in your second year, especially with privates, if you just put in your time and don't burn out.

Slow and steady wins the race... get set up in year one, and then plan for a BIG year 2.

Just my opinion. Good luck and please keep us posted so we have someone that can tell us what's going on at CDI.

[RoyBatty]

@majolica: "when they're getting more work out of most of their employees for less, why are they suddenly being so generous? "

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Could you clarify?

@Idh2222, or anyone else who can answer this: when you refer to the average working day being 6 hours, are you referring to 6 hours of actual teaching time, or does that mean 6 hours of "being there", including prep time? Do you work at CDI?

@johnsom827: I'd love to PM you, but apparently I need 25 posts before I can do that (wtf???), so I'll be blazing through that arbitrary requirement on random Off Topic posts I suppose.

@KoreanAmbition: My degree is in Political Science. How long have you been teaching in korea and how much are you earning now? I've never really considered staying in Korea for more than a year, but looking at the way America is heading, and knowing that with an F-4 visa I could potentially stay in Korea as long as I want earning money however I want, the thought is enticing.

Thanks for the sage advice. I hope someone from CDI can come along and clear things up a bit.

[KoreanAmbition]

Roy,

Go into the other forums and just post on any topic that seems interesting. You should be able to rifle off like 10 messages in 15 minutes at the slowest.

I'm relatively new to Korea but got lucky with my job. I'd prefer not to disclose my salary, but I'm sure you can find it in other threads.

As far as teaching hours versus hours at school; it's probably just safe to specify whenever you talk about it, or ask to double-check.

For the record Roy, I'm all about saving money, just like you are. I came looking for a way to make as much money as I could, and now that I'm here I focus on banking as much as I can. I used Dave's for 3 months before I came to Korea and learned as much as I could from the people on this site. While I didn't agree with everything that everyone said, I can attest to the fact that there are a ton of people on here that have been here a while and know their shit. There are others that haven't been here long but also know a lot.

You'll get way more chances once you get here to Korea, I can tell you that. Unfortunately, you're toughest situation is that you have a job where you can earn good cash, so unfortunately you have less places to work that would be considered a "move up" in the world.

Come to Korea, network, be social and meet people, and just give it time. I would highly consider staying the second year since there's no point to leave when the money is just starting to roll in at full-speed. Your biggest problem is that you don't have a Master degree, but for the time being (especially in the short-run) it won't really affect you. Trust me, once you get here and bank the money you're hoping for, you will understand why staying the second year will help secure some freedom and security in your life when you leave. It's nice to leave with a decent bankroll to either invest in a house when you go home, or at least to feel stressfree during the months you go unemployed when you move around and look for jobs. Heck, work a second year, bank another $30000 and then just travel the world for 12 months and blow it all. Still finish up with the original $30000 you banked in year 1.

The sky's the limit when you're young... go with it.

[majolica]

what i mean is, CDI is full of poor suckers making 2.2 mil and doing as many teaching hours as you would for $33 per hour. the fact that you'll be here on a F4 does ease my mind a little about your situation, but I'm still not entirely sure why they'd be willing to pay you per hour when they don't usually have a problem bleeding extra hours out of their salaried staff for less.
i think you really need to see the contract to know whether everything is as airtight as it sounds when they told you about it.

[Captain Courageous]

To answer your question directly:

Yes, it is a good deal. It's slightly less good IN Seoul than OUTSIDE of Seoul, though, because housing in Seoul ain't cheap. CDI will pay up to a certain amount for key money, which you don't have to pay back (assuming you don't DESTROY your apartment). It will all be listed in your contract.

Hourly pay is per hour of teaching time, not prep time, although teaching a majority of CDI's courses requires almost zero prep time. Well, except printing and making copies. Some of the really high-level courses may require more prep, however.

You can generally teach up to 6 hours a day (2 3-hour classes with breaks every hour), and more during intensives twice a year (which can get grueling sometimes, to be honest, but the extra cash owns).

You are guaranteed the 96 hours/month no matter how few you work, so you do get a minimum salary.

Branch schools are competitive, so work hard and you'll get noticed.


Also, most people on these boards who talk about CDI never actually taught there, so be careful about what you read.

[enns]

Everything Captain said is accurate in my experience with CDI. It can be a great set up, certainly better than a 2.1 mil, 8 hours a day hagwon. Keep in mind there is also training and meetings(you also have to be there 30 mins before class starts), so it probably averages out to 7 hours a day.