Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Gopher]

Dark Knight remains at the top of box-office sales at nearly $350 million in less than a month. Apparently this film resonates with many.

CNN Reports

The film features many moments worthy of analysis. For example, the Joker is called "a terrorist" throughought. In order to apprehend the Joker, Batman constructs an intelligence network that temporarily invades every single person's privacy. Batman argues that the ends justify the means when he constructs and runs it. Further, Batman harshly interrogates and in fact brutally tortures the Joker for information.

The gist of Batman's reason for being seems to be this: when terrorists such as the Joker arise, someone has to take the responsibility of breaking the law, indeed becoming vengeful, a hated figure, and an outcast, in order to serve the greater good. Things always get worse just before they get better, Harvey Dent, in fact says, while defending Batman at one point. The police commissioner, too, expressly supports Batman when he takes this path.

Interesting film and message, then. Seems to be especially appropriate today -- if not a subtle commentary in support of the present administration's tactics. And, again, it seems that quite a few have accepted this message without objecting.

I wonder whether it will remain number one next weekend...

[A2Steve]

[Gopher]

[Big_Bird]

Well then, I dread to think that little_bird might take an interest in Batman. His current role model is Spiderman, and he runs around the house firing imaginary webs at us all. The other day I found him throwing clean laundry all around the room, and whacking shirts and trousers with his toys, all the while yelling joyously "I'm saving the city! I'm saving the city!!". "Stop messing with the laundry!" I scolded. "But I'm saving the city, mummy! I'm saving the city!!"

From the sounds of it, a similar infatuation with Batman would find him torturing the neighbour's cat, or (probably more likely) his baby brother, during his little forays into 'saving the city.'

[Gopher]

I would not introduce little_bird to the Joker just yet, Big_Bird.

Just found this, incidentally. Through Wikipedia, believe it or not. When contributors source their contributions right, Wikipedia can be useful.

[yawarakaijin]

I agree with the point you are trying to make Gopher and to some extent the author of the link you cited. There is however one chink in the armor.

In today's popular media there is a reason why movies/tv shows about roughing up bad men to get information or severing a few limbs in order to discover the location of a bomb are all well recieved. In 99.9% of the shows the person being tortured is KNOWN to be deserving of such treatment. No one in their right might would honestly and truly give a crap about Mr. Mohammed el Bomb Maker being roughed up a bit to stop a terrorist attack. In the movies it is on a very personal level. Mr. A is bad. The audience all know, without shadow of a doubt, that he is bad. Mr. A gets roughed up by Mr. B and the world is saved.

Unfortunately many, many, many thousands of Mr. Ms. and little tiny innocent C's have been killed to get the occassional Mr. B. I hardly doubt the American public would like to see a movie about that would they? I would argue that a society (any society) where the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocents are applauded in order for them to "feel" safer is not a healthy one.

I do believe in the power of science fiction to explore social themes. Star Trek and Battlestar Galactica, as you mentioned, did wonderful jobs of it. Comparing the Bush administration to Batman.....I don't quite buy it.

[mindmetoo]

I think when people are looking to Batman to find some, any support for Bush well you're really, really reaching.

Merely showing bank robbers doesn't mean you support bank robbery.

[JMO]

Are you expecting people to be outraged that Batman tortured the Joker? Its a comic book charachter! Sweet mother of god...


I saw 'no country' last year..I didn't object to that dude flipping a coin and murdering everyone in sight. Since I didn't object therefore i must have been accepting it.

Ok..so now to put this in a real life context. Ah..I know what this means..I'm a Mugabe supporter! ...and I didn't even know it.

[loose_ends]

Well done Gopher. You almost took a stance on something.

[Gopher]

JMO: can we not simply have discussions here? Why must everything be about outrage and accusation on this messageboard? In any case, no, I do not expect anyone to become upset or outraged over this. This is a speculative, cultural historical discussion. No more no less. Calm yourself.

Loose_ends: thanks for the antagonism and the sneer. Yes, I can support the claim. See the first link I posted on this thread. People have voted with their pocketbooks, so to speak, and, according to some cultural historians' standards, that signals that the film's message resonates with them. People pick and choose which films they see and do not see. And this has become one of the largest grossing films ever, I understand. Is everyone conscious of all of this? That remains the million-dollar question.

Now. Can you show me any evidence of people protesting this film's implicit and explicit message that someone must become the bad guy in order to defeat terrorists?

[bacasper]

Interesting take.

It is well-known that the CIA influenced the producers of Blackhawk Down to make the American cause appear more favorable in that movie. It makes one wonder whether they had a hand in Dark Knight.

[Gopher]

CIA has been involved in cultural production, domestically and abroad. I have never heard of its involvement in blockbuster Hollywood films, however.

How do you know this about Blackhawk Down? Apparently you also call into question Mark Bowden's integrity, as the film parallels the book.

[Ya-ta Boy]

How much of this film's box office take is due to the death of Ledger? I know it's probably an unanswerable question, but it is a factor. Early death has a way of inciting interest--James Dean comes to mind. The film got enormous free pre-release publicity because of it.

[bacasper]

[Gopher]

Ya-ta Boy: Heath Ledger's death might indeed be a significant factor. People who supposedly oppose torture, however, still probably ought to have voiced some kind of objection to some of this film's content by now.

Democracy Now! is not a reliable source for such claims, Bacasper. Democracy Now! seems like little more than yet another oppositionist-to-the-bones, allegation-driven "news service." How did Democracy Now! know what it alleged about Blackhawk Down, in any case?