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fiveeagles

Joined: 19 May 2005 Location: Vancouver
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Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:37 pm Post subject: The next president will disappoint you |
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http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-bacevich24-2008aug24,0,1685703.story?track=rss
On inauguration day, a new U.S. president is a demigod, the embodiment of aspirations as vast as they are varied. Over the course of the years that follow, the president inevitably fails to fulfill those lofty hopes. So the cycle begins anew, and Americans look to the next occupant of the Oval Office to undo his predecessor's mistakes and usher in an era of lasting peace and sustained prosperity. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:16 am Post subject: |
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So, vote McCain?  |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:46 am Post subject: |
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While the title of the piece is not a shock to anyone with any common sense, the article itself is a good reminder that the president must play the cards he is dealt. While it doesn't come out and say so in so many words, it also implies that past mistakes have weakened the president's hand this time around. |
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Nowhere Man

Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:21 am Post subject: ... |
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Quote: |
an era of lasting peace and sustained prosperity. |
Strawman.
As Yata implies, the next 4 years looks pretty grim.
I'm not really looking for peace and prosperity so much as an end to the past 8 years of:
-contempt for human rights
-contempt for civil liberties
-contempt for traditional allies
-contempt for global treaties
-contempt for values that aren't rooted in the Bible
-unmitigated deficit spending
-unaccounted-for expenditures regularly in the billions
-stone-walling of information coming out of the White House
-the primary representative of my government serving as a constant embarassment to my country
To make a long story short, the bar is set so low at this point that it would be insanely difficult to disappoint me.
I don't think McCain would be all that disappointing, but he's paid far more lip service to aspects of the above than Obama has.
I'd love for there to be more choices than 2, but those, again, are the cards we're dealt.
I'm not so sure we're going to see the kind of change he has in mind, but Obama is clearly the best option. Wouldn't be prudent at this juncture to vote otherwise.
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:02 am Post subject: |
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I was reading EJ Dionne's piece on Biden (good read) and it mentions something Biden said years ago that is relevant to this thread:
This week's convention is Obama's, not Biden's. But by setting the agenda for the work that needs to be done here, Biden may yet achieve a goal he set for himself back in 1987. His hope, he said, was "to bend history just a little bit."
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/08/obama_08_is_biden_88.html |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:36 am Post subject: |
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The NY Times has a concise summary of Obama's political philosophy that makes calling him a liberal (with the most liberal rating in the Senate) a little problematic. The word that popped out to me was 'pragmatic', not ideological. That alone is refreshing.
Tracing the Disparate Threads in Obama�s Political Philosophy
Presidential candidates often exude a whiff of centrism as they enter the general campaign. But for Mr. Obama, a relative newcomer to the national stage who will use the Democratic Party�s convention this week to sell himself to voters on his terms, these moves have heightened a sense of his ideological elusiveness.
Much of Mr. Obama�s politics, his opposition to the war and support for raising taxes on the wealthy, and his support of abortion and labor rights, falls squarely in the liberal mainstream of the Democratic Party. But his ideological departures are noteworthy. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
While the title of the piece is not a shock to anyone with any common sense, the article itself is a good reminder that the president must play the cards he is dealt. While it doesn't come out and say so in so many words, it also implies that past mistakes have weakened the president's hand this time around. |
Right, I agree. I smell some Clinton-blaming Bush-apologist cowpie in the title.
Nowhere Man gave us a nice list on why we shouldn't buy it. What is more interesting is the redemption factor: even mediocre to terrible Presidents tend to be redeemed after the fact, particularly after they are dead. I'm thinking of Truman, JFK, and Ford, although I am happy to report that Nixon retains his reputation as a quasi-criminal. Look for the Dubya brand to be slowly redeemed, starting in about 20 years. |
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Kikomom

Joined: 24 Jun 2008 Location: them thar hills--Penna, USA--Zippy is my kid, the teacher in ROK. You can call me Kiko
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Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
I was reading EJ Dionne's piece on Biden (good read) and it mentions something Biden said years ago that is relevant to this thread:
This week's convention is Obama's, not Biden's. But by setting the agenda for the work that needs to be done here, Biden may yet achieve a goal he set for himself back in 1987. His hope, he said, was "to bend history just a little bit."
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/08/obama_08_is_biden_88.html |
Yep, he could bend some History. Prosecuting this criminal regime back to the stoneage. (I can't wait to see his pick for AG.)
If Joe can run the VP's office as good as Cheney has*, we might see some justice for this administration done after all. That's all I hope for--besides a little Sunshine back in DC.
As a longtime Senator, he's very well aware of where the damage has been done, where the fixes need to be. And as a constitutional law professor, knows what violations deserve to be pursued ... (Kucinich actually already has it spelled out for them.)
*And has access to all the records. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
What is more interesting is the redemption factor: even mediocre to terrible Presidents tend to be redeemed after the fact, particularly after they are dead. |
Not to mention the chronically jealous trying to destroy the reputation of a truly great president like FDR by calling him the greatest threat to mankind since the snake in the Garden. Reassessment is fine and inevitable. Perspective is only gained with time. As Mao said when asked his opinion of the French Rev, "It's too early to know." But I agree, it's gratifying that Nixon hasn't improved with age. I'm still waiting for people to wake up and assign Reagan to the bottom of the list of presidents along with Buchanan. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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Ya-Ta,
First of all, the more you learn about Mao, the more you will despise him. I guarantee you he knew very little about the French Revolution and said what he did to appear contemplative. Mao is an awful man, one of the worst of the 20th century.
Second of all, notice I did not bring up all Presidents. But you cannot tell me that FDR did not RADICALLY change the relationship between the Federal gov't and the States. And there are those of us who believe it is for the worst. Do you agree with federal drug policies? It was FDR's encroachments which has made it possible. FDR was not the worst President, its just that he's one of the most consistantly over-rated. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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I assure you, the ONLY thing about Mao I ever liked was his comment about the French Rev. I mean that seriously. The man was a monster who got worse with age.
I agree with you that FDR changed the relationship with the states. It was long over-due and the public had been asking for it for a long time. Once it was agreed we are one people and not a collection of states, the change was inevitable and necessary. While I don't think government has the solution to all problems, I do think it's a tool to be used to improve people's lives. The function of progressives is to suggest ways government can do that; the function of conservatives is to be the voice of caution, asking the hard questions that force the progressives to hone the ideas to practical and achievable ends. |
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Czarjorge

Joined: 01 May 2007 Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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Kikomom wrote: |
Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
I was reading EJ Dionne's piece on Biden (good read) and it mentions something Biden said years ago that is relevant to this thread:
This week's convention is Obama's, not Biden's. But by setting the agenda for the work that needs to be done here, Biden may yet achieve a goal he set for himself back in 1987. His hope, he said, was "to bend history just a little bit."
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/08/obama_08_is_biden_88.html |
Yep, he could bend some History. Prosecuting this criminal regime back to the stoneage. (I can't wait to see his pick for AG.)
If Joe can run the VP's office as good as Cheney has*, we might see some justice for this administration done after all. That's all I hope for--besides a little Sunshine back in DC.
As a longtime Senator, he's very well aware of where the damage has been done, where the fixes need to be. And as a constitutional law professor, knows what violations deserve to be pursued ... (Kucinich actually already has it spelled out for them.)
*And has access to all the records. |
It's really too bad Edwards couldn't keep it in his pants. He was a strong candidate for AG, and would have gotten to do a lot of his anti-poverty crusading from that position.
Do you really think Cheney is going to allow any records to remain? |
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