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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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 Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:51 am Post subject: Children aged eight enlisted as council snoopers |
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Children as young as eight have been recruited by councils to "snoop" on their neighbours and report petty offences such as littering, the Daily Telegraph can disclose.
The youngsters are among almost 5,000 residents who in some cases are being offered �500 rewards if they provide evidence of minor infractions.
One in six councils contacted by the Telegraph said they had signed up teams of "environment volunteers" who are being encouraged to photograph or video neighbours guilty of dog fouling, littering or "bin crimes".
The "covert human intelligence sources", as some local authorities describe them, are also being asked to pass on the names of neighbours they believe to be responsible, or take down their number-plates.
Ealing Council in West London said: "There are hundreds of Junior Streetwatchers, aged 8-10 years old, who are trained to identify and report enviro-crime issues such as graffiti and fly-tipping."
Harlow Council in Essex said: "We currently have 25 Street Scene Champions who work with the council. They are all aged between 11 to 14. They are encouraged to report the aftermath of enviro-crimes such as vandalism to bus shelters, graffiti, abandoned vehicles, fly-tipping etc. They do this via telephone or email direct to the council."
Other local authorities recruit adult volunteers through advertisements in local newspapers, with at least 4,841 people already patrolling the streets in their spare time.
Some are assigned James Bond-style code numbers, which they use instead of their real names when they ring a special informer's hotline.
This escalation in Britain's growing surveillance state follows an outcry about the way councils are using powers originally designed to combat terrorism and organised crime to spy on residents. In one case, a family was followed by council staff for almost three weeks after being wrongly accused of breaking rules on school catchment areas.
It also emerged last month that around 1,400 security guards, car park attendants and town hall staff have been given police-style powers including the right to issue on-the-spot fines for littering, cycling on the pavement and other offences.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2689996/Children-aged-eight-enlisted-as-council-snoopers.html
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Anti-terrorism laws used to spy on noisy children
Councils are using anti-terrorism laws to spy on residents and tackle barking dogs and noisy children.
An investigation by The Sunday Telegraph found that three quarters of local authorities have used the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (RIPA) 2000 over the past year.
The Act gives councils the right to place residents and businesses under surveillance, trace telephone and email accounts and even send staff on undercover missions.
The findings alarmed civil liberties campaigners. Shami Chakrabarti, the director of Liberty, said: "Councils do a grave disservice to professional policing by using serious surveillance against litterbugs instead of terrorists."
The RIPA was introduced to help fight terrorism and crime. But a series of extensions, first authorised by David Blunkett in 2003, mean that Britain's 474 councils can use the law to tackle minor misdemeanours.
Councils are using the Act to tackle dog fouling, the unauthorised sale of pizzas and the abuse of the blue badge scheme for disabled drivers.
Among 115 councils that responded to a Freedom of Information request, 89 admitted that they had instigated investigations under the Act. The 82 councils that provided figures said that they authorised or carried out a total of 867 RIPA investigations during the year to August
Durham county council emerged as the biggest user, with just over 100 surveillance operations launched during the period. Newcastle city council used the powers 82 times, and Middlesbrough council 70 times.
Derby council made sound recordings of a property after a complaint about noisy children.
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Oh UK. What are you doing? |
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Kikomom
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: them thar hills--Penna, USA--Zippy is my kid, the teacher in ROK. You can call me Kiko
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| Bringing up a new generation of Gestapo? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| Nothing wrong with the first one as long as the children are trained and the police only act on information obtained legally about vandalism and littering in public or semi-public places. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| The state will not start or stop anywhere. It will be everywhere. A nation of rats. I'm sure that a sense of community won't be affected. |
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Kikomom
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: them thar hills--Penna, USA--Zippy is my kid, the teacher in ROK. You can call me Kiko
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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Same kids could be sent out with bags to pick the stuff up, fercryingoutloud.
Someone should file a FOI to see who's brats are picking up the �500 rewards. (bet they're related to a politician) |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| The state will not start or stop anywhere. It will be everywhere. A nation of rats. I'm sure that a sense of community won't be affected. |
As opposed to the sense of community that exists when many people litter or vandalize? Particularly when they do so against public property.
Like I said, this is not something I am outraged about. Although I certainly understand the concerns, my feeling is that this is the UK, the burden of evidence is still on the state, and the children are not instructed to report political crimes. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| The state will not start or stop anywhere. It will be everywhere. A nation of rats. I'm sure that a sense of community won't be affected. |
As opposed to the sense of community that exists when many people litter or vandalize? Particularly when they do so against public property.
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I just don't think it is an appropriate use of government resources or children. Agree to disagree I guess. |
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Zutronius
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Location: Suncheon
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| I think I read about this in a George Orwell book. |
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Kikomom
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: them thar hills--Penna, USA--Zippy is my kid, the teacher in ROK. You can call me Kiko
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
Like I said, this is not something I am outraged about. Although I certainly understand the concerns, my feeling is that this is the UK, the burden of evidence is still on the state, and the children are not instructed to report political crimes. |
And kids don't have vendettas of their own to settle? You need to see The Children's Hour.  |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Kikomom wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
Like I said, this is not something I am outraged about. Although I certainly understand the concerns, my feeling is that this is the UK, the burden of evidence is still on the state, and the children are not instructed to report political crimes. |
And kids don't have vendettas of their own to settle? You need to see The Children's Hour. |
Its vandalism and littering for chrissakes. In many cases, these aren't even misdemeanors, but mere infractions. Maybe its a bad idea, but I'm sure this will eventually be challenged in court on some level.
The fact that you seriously suggested that this is reminiscient of the Gestapo makes me wonder if you understand my point. I'm not necessarily for the measure, but somehow I can't get worked up about children being taught to inform on people who drop beer bottles in public places or put graffitis on public telephone booths, etc. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know that it's all that bad either. Kids might learn there is some value to public spaces and a lot of us don't like living in other people's trash.
Quite honestly, I've spent the last 4 months wishing the cops would haul the 3-year old kid who lives upstairs to the cop shop and keep her there every night. I was really upset when I heard mommy was pregnant again. Fortunately last Friday I heard daddy resigned and the lot of them will be moving out in a couple of weeks. |
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Kikomom
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: them thar hills--Penna, USA--Zippy is my kid, the teacher in ROK. You can call me Kiko
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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So what happens when (as a teacher) you reward the little snitches and tattletales in school?
How well does that scenario work out? |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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Oh dear. Sounds as though we are turning into Switzerland!
I remember my neighbour was reported by the old man upstairs....for using her washing machine on the wrong day.  |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
Oh dear. Sounds as though we are turning into Switzerland!
I remember my neighbour was reported by the old man upstairs....for using her washing machine on the wrong day. |
Of course, you see the large difference between the state training and employing children as rats (with the explicit encouragement to go out and take pictures, as if your nation didn't have enough pictures..) and a kid ratting on his own regard. No? Do you think it will stop at this? Do government programs every stop at their initially established borders? What will they being spying on next? Or, is it that the farther left on the spectrum one goes, the less the separation between state and society gets.
Anyways, can't you blame this on Thatcher in some way? What if the article had said:
The Guardian said:
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| A legacy of the hard-right Thatcher government, Labour is aggressively criticizing the ongoing violation of privacy in local councils. |
I bet your response would have been a tad different, no? |
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Cornfed
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| I wonder what percentage of parents are already afraid to speak freely in front of their children for fear of being ratted on and hauled away or fired from their jobs or whatever. I imagine it is quite high. The West really has turned into the former Soviet Union with the added indignities of mass unemployment and feminaziism. So tragic. |
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