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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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 Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:15 pm Post subject: New IAEA report:Sanctions ineffective, Iran continues on. |
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http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1221489040900&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
"The report makes clear that "there hasn't been any impact of the sanctions on the uranium enrichment program that we have seen," Spector said, while at the same time suggesting that sanctions will be harder to use because of what Iran has accomplished in terms of know-how and technology in the meantime."
wow. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Ok. So, sanctions don't work. I'm sure Uncle Fidel is totally surprised. Instead of war then how about sabotage. I do not want to 1) alienate the Iranian youth, who largely lean towards us yet battle their own incredible cultural/national chauvinism 2) have the massive consequences from a large military operation or 3) let them have the bomb. All options suck. So, sabotage? |
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I_Am_The_Kiwi
Joined: 10 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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Another country going toward nuclear power, and 'most likely' nuclear arms. Add them to the list.
Russia
United States
United Kingdom
France
China
India
Pakistan
North Korea
Israel
what will one more really do.......and there not enriching at a high enough level anyways. |
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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| I_Am_The_Kiwi wrote: |
Another country going toward nuclear power, and 'most likely' nuclear arms. Add them to the list.
Russia
United States
United Kingdom
France
China
India
Pakistan
North Korea
Israel
what will one more really do.......and there not enriching at a high enough level anyways. |
not publicly enriching to a high level.
and theres a difference between iran and the aforementioned..can you guess?
Not to mention that the UN at one time found design specs and documents for fitting nuclear warheads onto the shehab missiles of Irans, as well as documnents on how to cast a uranium core into a nuclear warhead.
irans own stated goal of 54,000 centrifuge enrichment cascade is well in excess of what a civilian program requires. |
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aka Dave
Joined: 02 May 2008
Location: Down by the river
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:12 am Post subject: |
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| I_Am_The_Kiwi wrote: |
Another country going toward nuclear power, and 'most likely' nuclear arms. Add them to the list.
Russia
United States
United Kingdom
France
China
India
Pakistan
North Korea
Israel
what will one more really do.......and there not enriching at a high enough level anyways. |
Um, they're within missile distance with Israel, a tiny country that could be totally obliterated by a nuclear attack, and their government has said things regarding Israel no other nuclear power has come close to saying.
A nuclear Iran is an absolute existential threat to Israel. They sponsor terrorism against Israel.
Further, Iran is in the most volatile, unstable region in the world. They're governed by a fundamentalist theocracy. If the Southern Baptists governed America I'd be terrified what they'd do with our nukes. A nuclear Iran is a game changer. Not acceptable. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| I_Am_The_Kiwi wrote: |
Another country going toward nuclear power, and 'most likely' nuclear arms. Add them to the list.
Russia
United States
United Kingdom
France
China
India
Pakistan
North Korea
Israel
what will one more really do.......and there not enriching at a high enough level anyways. |
And the same IAEA states they are at least ten years away from producing a nuclear weapon. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:20 am Post subject: |
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Build this and put Iran on notice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWJw8Wn3jpk
If Iran goes nuclear then they can be expected to behave themselves.
If Iran continues what they have been doing then the US will hit and destroy Iran's nuclear program , its military and its government in response.
It won't be" shock and awe " this time.
If Iran behaves themself then they won't have a problem. If they government there can't help themselves then they will have brought it on themselves. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:04 am Post subject: Sanctions are working |
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The sanctions are effective as a punishment for lack of full disclosure and co-operation with the IAEA.
The sanctions are not effective if they are to be viewed as preventing Iranian nuclear development; and really that would be asking too much given that both Russian and Chinese officials have been to Iran and offered some level of assistance. But the Bush administration has even not properly targetted its sanctions against high-technology transfers. Which is to say, the current sanction structure is still low level, and could stand to escalate.
The sanctions, as they stand, provide leverage for further negotiations and a mutual resolution of Iranian and US aims. I realize that such a view of sanctions is a bit too broad and flexible for those with a neo-con mindset. Nevertheless, I would agree that it is a fantasy to believe a few sanctions would cause an uprising.
But as a punishment, sanctions may help bring Iran to the table, and will be a good card to play once they are there. Iran's refining capacity is insufficient to meet its own oil needs. Meanwhile, infrastructure on the drilling side is going to impel them to stop importing oil. As it has always been, but moreso particularly in the modern world, economic might is ultimately inextricable from military might. |
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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Sanctions are working |
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| Kuros wrote: |
The sanctions are effective as a punishment for lack of full disclosure and co-operation with the IAEA.
The sanctions are not effective if they are to be viewed as preventing Iranian nuclear development; and really that would be asking too much given that both Russian and Chinese officials have been to Iran and offered some level of assistance. But the Bush administration has even not properly targetted its sanctions against high-technology transfers. Which is to say, the current sanction structure is still low level, and could stand to escalate.
The sanctions, as they stand, provide leverage for further negotiations and a mutual resolution of Iranian and US aims. I realize that such a view of sanctions is a bit too broad and flexible for those with a neo-con mindset. Nevertheless, I would agree that it is a fantasy to believe a few sanctions would cause an uprising.
But as a punishment, sanctions may help bring Iran to the table, and will be a good card to play once they are there. Iran's refining capacity is insufficient to meet its own oil needs. Meanwhile, infrastructure on the drilling side is going to impel them to stop importing oil. As it has always been, but moreso particularly in the modern world, economic might is ultimately inextricable from military might. |
The sanctions were not put in place as a result of non disclosure. the whole point of the sanctions, and what started them, was Iran refusing to freeze Uranium enrichment. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: Sanctions are working |
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| NAVFC wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
The sanctions are effective as a punishment for lack of full disclosure and co-operation with the IAEA.
The sanctions are not effective if they are to be viewed as preventing Iranian nuclear development; and really that would be asking too much given that both Russian and Chinese officials have been to Iran and offered some level of assistance. But the Bush administration has even not properly targetted its sanctions against high-technology transfers. Which is to say, the current sanction structure is still low level, and could stand to escalate.
The sanctions, as they stand, provide leverage for further negotiations and a mutual resolution of Iranian and US aims. I realize that such a view of sanctions is a bit too broad and flexible for those with a neo-con mindset. Nevertheless, I would agree that it is a fantasy to believe a few sanctions would cause an uprising.
But as a punishment, sanctions may help bring Iran to the table, and will be a good card to play once they are there. Iran's refining capacity is insufficient to meet its own oil needs. Meanwhile, infrastructure on the drilling side is going to impel them to stop importing oil. As it has always been, but moreso particularly in the modern world, economic might is ultimately inextricable from military might. |
The sanctions were not put in place as a result of non disclosure. the whole point of the sanctions, and what started them, was Iran refusing to freeze Uranium enrichment. |
| Quote: |
| The sanctions are effective as a punishment for lack of full disclosure and co-operation with the IAEA |
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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: Sanctions are working |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| NAVFC wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
The sanctions are effective as a punishment for lack of full disclosure and co-operation with the IAEA.
The sanctions are not effective if they are to be viewed as preventing Iranian nuclear development; and really that would be asking too much given that both Russian and Chinese officials have been to Iran and offered some level of assistance. But the Bush administration has even not properly targetted its sanctions against high-technology transfers. Which is to say, the current sanction structure is still low level, and could stand to escalate.
The sanctions, as they stand, provide leverage for further negotiations and a mutual resolution of Iranian and US aims. I realize that such a view of sanctions is a bit too broad and flexible for those with a neo-con mindset. Nevertheless, I would agree that it is a fantasy to believe a few sanctions would cause an uprising.
But as a punishment, sanctions may help bring Iran to the table, and will be a good card to play once they are there. Iran's refining capacity is insufficient to meet its own oil needs. Meanwhile, infrastructure on the drilling side is going to impel them to stop importing oil. As it has always been, but moreso particularly in the modern world, economic might is ultimately inextricable from military might. |
The sanctions were not put in place as a result of non disclosure. the whole point of the sanctions, and what started them, was Iran refusing to freeze Uranium enrichment. |
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| The sanctions are effective as a punishment for lack of full disclosure and co-operation with the IAEA |
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No they arent, even in that respect as the latest IAEAreport shows Iran is non disclosing and non-cooperative, even after 3 sets of sanctions.
But, I state again, the sanctions were put i place as a result of Iran's refusal to suspend Uranium enrichment. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: Sanctions are working |
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| NAVFC wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| NAVFC wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
The sanctions are effective as a punishment for lack of full disclosure and co-operation with the IAEA.
The sanctions are not effective if they are to be viewed as preventing Iranian nuclear development; and really that would be asking too much given that both Russian and Chinese officials have been to Iran and offered some level of assistance. But the Bush administration has even not properly targetted its sanctions against high-technology transfers. Which is to say, the current sanction structure is still low level, and could stand to escalate.
The sanctions, as they stand, provide leverage for further negotiations and a mutual resolution of Iranian and US aims. I realize that such a view of sanctions is a bit too broad and flexible for those with a neo-con mindset. Nevertheless, I would agree that it is a fantasy to believe a few sanctions would cause an uprising.
But as a punishment, sanctions may help bring Iran to the table, and will be a good card to play once they are there. Iran's refining capacity is insufficient to meet its own oil needs. Meanwhile, infrastructure on the drilling side is going to impel them to stop importing oil. As it has always been, but moreso particularly in the modern world, economic might is ultimately inextricable from military might. |
The sanctions were not put in place as a result of non disclosure. the whole point of the sanctions, and what started them, was Iran refusing to freeze Uranium enrichment. |
| Quote: |
| The sanctions are effective as a punishment for lack of full disclosure and co-operation with the IAEA |
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No they arent, even in that respect as the latest IAEAreport shows Iran is non disclosing and non-cooperative, even after 3 sets of sanctions.
But, I state again, the sanctions were put i place as a result of Iran's refusal to suspend Uranium enrichment. |
Dude. I already told you that I define effective differently than you. You think for sanctions to be effective they must ultimately eliminate the problem. I think for sanctions to be effective they must merely act as a meaningful penalty. Thus, for sanctions be effective as a punishment they need not meet your high standard of stopping Iran's nuclear development.
Yes, and 'Iran's refusal to suspend Uranium enrichment' = lack of full co-operation with the IAEA. The reason the IAEA asked for the unusual good-faith measure of suspension was that Iran had not been forthcoming in disclosing all information and allowing the IAEA entry and access to all suspected nuclear development cites. Hence, I packed all of that drama into one sentence.
How tedious. |
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