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In this corner, Co-VeeP Todd Palin?
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:02 pm    Post subject: In this corner, Co-VeeP Todd Palin? Reply with quote

In an article about his being subpeonaed, there was this intriguing tid bit:

Palin, cast at last week's Republican National Convention as a supportive husband, oil rig worker and championship snowmachine racer, has emerged in the days since as also a powerful figure in his wife's administration. Despite holding no government position, he attends official meetings and is copied on e-mails concerning state business.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/palin_troopergate

Considering that he twice registered with a secessionist party, I find the prospect of him anywhere within 3,000 miles of the White House distasteful at best.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
he twice registered with a secessionist party


Yeah, considering all the talk we've had about the media supposedly ganging up on Palin, you'd think that this particular affiliation would be more of an issue. But the press seems content to report that Palin herself never actually joined the AIP, and leave it at that. Her husband's membership in the party, not to mention her own address to their convention, is apparently deemed unnewsworthy.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it puzzling that the media hasn't made a bigger deal of the AIP so far. It's a harder thing to explain away than earmarks, which every congressman does. I can't be the only one who is appalled at the prospect of a semi-secessionist sympathizer moving to Washington.

One of the things Palin needs to be asked on national TV is to what degree she agrees with the AIP.

Should McCain win, Palin will have to take the following oath: I, [Vice-President Elect's name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.

It's clear Todd could not take that oath. I seriously wonder if she can take it without crossing her fingers behind her back.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I find it puzzling that the media hasn't made a bigger deal of the AIP so far. It's a harder thing to explain away than earmarks, which every congressman does. I can't be the only one who is appalled at the prospect of a semi-secessionist sympathizer moving to Washington.


You know, my theory is that, because of Alaska's geographical isolation, the idea of Alaska seccessionism just doesn't register with people on an emotional level, the way that it would if one of the Lower 48 had a separatist movement going.

Try to imagine if there were a Let's Join Canada party operating in Washington state, and it came out that the governor's spouse was a member, and the governor had sent a congratulatory videotape to their convention. I think that would be regarded as a pretty big issue if the governor decided to run on a presidential ticket.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might be on to something there. On our maps Alaska is always shrunk and tucked away down in a corner. I don't know how conscious we are of Alaska--not very, normally.

Besides that, small-government people have always had an incestuous relationship with secessionists. There isn't even a solid line between them, more of a dotted line that lets them scurry back and forth between the ideas. We haven't had a serious secessionist movement since 1865, so most people don't even think about it. The ones who do are the far right survivalist types who infest the Rocky Mountain West.

By the way, we have a $10 trillion debt thing going on south of the border. Does Canada have enough money in the bank to buy Alaska for a price that would put a dent in our debt?
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Does Canada have enough money in the bank to buy Alaska for a price that would put a dent in our debt?


I have no idea. But you know, the last Canadian prime ministers to actually articulate any sort of northern-based ideology was Diefenbaker, in the 50s and 60s. He called it "the Vision". One of his cabinet ministers used to express regret that he had not been around in the 19th Century to offer a bid on Alaska. So you're idea is not without its followers north of the border.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

She's not a secessionist. The AIP represented a whole lot more than secessionism, as it had to to become as mainstream as it is in Alaska.

Much more worrisome than Palin's association with a mainstream political party in Alaska is her whacko Christianism and her lack of knowledge of foreign affairs.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
She's not a secessionist. The AIP represented a whole lot more than secessionism, as it had to to become as mainstream as it is in Alaska.


Well, maybe. But did they ever renounce their demands for a referendum? Because the only reason I could think for them to be asking for a referendum was because they hoped Alaskans would vote for independence. I don't think they were pining for Alaskans to choose the "statehood" or "territory" options, since they already have the former and nobody in their right mind wants the latter.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Much more worrisome than Palin's association with a mainstream political party in Alaska is her whacko Christianism


Yeah, but do you think that there are any swing voters who would be offended if the Dems started lambasting the end-times theology of her church? I know a lot of fundamentalists would be insulted at that, but my guess is they're voting GOP no matter what.

So if the Dems were to say "look, she belongs to a church that preaches Jews are getting killed by terrorists as punishment for rejecting Christ", is there any risk in that? One problem I could see is that it gives the Republicans the opportunity to bring up Jeremiah Wright again.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the other hand wrote:
Quote:
She's not a secessionist. The AIP represented a whole lot more than secessionism, as it had to to become as mainstream as it is in Alaska.


Well, maybe. But did they ever renounce their demands for a referendum? Because the only reason I could think for them to be asking for a referendum was because they hoped Alaskans would vote for independence. I don't think they were pining for Alaskans to choose the "statehood" or "territory" options, since they already have the former and nobody in their right mind wants the latter.


A referendum isn't so bad. Secessionism conjures up images of white Southerners on horseback defending slave-holding. That isn't at play here.

You're probably right, the major foundation of their party was Alaskan independence. But a VeeP candidate's spouse is too attenuated a connection to be anything really attention-worthy. This is Rev. Wright distraction territory. Does nothing to add to the debate.
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caniff



Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the other hand wrote:
nobody in their right mind


...would want Palin in the White House.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if she's a secessionist or not, since no one so far has asked her about it. Long over-due question, in my opinion. I have a little bit of trouble accepting that as a Republican, party of Lincoln, she can be even remotely tolerant of the idea. But we won't know until someone asks her directly.

The AIP itself is coy about independence, but not very coy. Here is what their homepage says:

Until we as Alaskans receive our Ultimate Goal, the AIP will continue to strive to make Alaska a better place to live with less government interference in our everyday lives.
The Alaskan Independence Party's goal is the vote we were entitled to in 1958, one choice from among the following four alternatives:
1) Remain a Territory.
2) Become a separate and Independent Nation.
3) Accept Commonwealth status.
4) Become a State.
The call for this vote is in furtherance of the dream of the Alaskan Independence Party's founding father, Joe Vogler, which was for Alaskans to achieve independence under a minimal government, fully responsive to the people, promoting a peaceful and lawful means of resolving differences.


I'm not sure if 'receiving' is meant to be 'achieving', but the odds are...
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A referendum isn't so bad.


I beg to differ.

600,000 dead in the Civil War beg to differ. A referendum on the possibility of secession is not on the table. Under any circumstances.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's not quite true. If the entire US wanted to put the question of Alaska leaving the union to a vote, that would be OK. But the citizens of a state are just a minority of the people, and do not have the right to take their neighborhood out of the union at their will.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But a VeeP candidate's spouse is too attenuated a connection to be anything really attention-worthy. This is Rev. Wright distraction territory. Does nothing to add to the debate.


I agree that the connection is pretty attenuated. However, even that much connection implies a certain level of at least tolerance for the idea, if not outright acceptance. For a major party to even flirt with secession, even at the attenuated distance, raises the concept to the level of public debate. Social Security has been the '3rd Rail' for a long time. I'd say putting a secessionist that close to the center of power is introducing what should be a '4th Rail'.
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