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Why I'll never trust Chinese products
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madoka



Joined: 27 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:18 pm    Post subject: Why I'll never trust Chinese products Reply with quote

I'm pretty hesitant to use Korean products, but I'll always try to avoid.

It's one thing to use a Chinese made computer, but i would never trust any Chinese products with my health or safety. If that many Chinese companies are willing to poison babies to save a few bucks, then all bets are off with them.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080913/ap_on_re_as/china_baby_formula_recall;_ylt=At95V53tegq2ulQDdIo1kgsBxg8F

BEIJING - China's health minister blamed a dairy Saturday for the delay in warning the public about tainted milk powder linked to kidney stones in infants and at least one death, as authorities increased the number of known sick babies to 432.

The incident has been an embarrassing failure for China's product safety system, which was overhauled in an attempt to restore consumer confidence after a string of recalls and warnings around the world over tainted toothpaste, faulty tires and other Chinese-made goods.

Officials complained they were not alerted to the milk problem until Monday even though the product's maker, Sanlu Group Co., had received complaints as early as March and its tests found a banned chemical in the milk powder in August. The company ordered a recall Thursday.

"The Sanlu Group should shoulder major responsibility for this," Health Minister Gao Qiang said at a news conference.

He gave no indication what penalties the dairy might face, but said those responsible would "be dealt with severely."

Officials defended their response to the new latest product safety disaster. They said 19 people had been detained and 78 were being questioned about how the banned chemical melamine was added to milk sold to Sanlu, which is China's biggest producer of milk powder.

Shoddy and fake goods are common in China, and infants, hospital patients and others have been killed or injured by tainted or fake milk, medicines, liquor and other products.

The milk scandal is especially damaging because it involves a major food processor. The government expects such companies to act as industry role models of safety and quality.

Gao, who said the government had launched an emergency inspection of all 175 Chinese companies that produce infant formula, said some of Sanlu's tainted milk powder was exported to Taiwan but none was sold to other foreign markets.

In Taiwan, authorities were trying to determine if any tainted milk powder was consumed on the island. Liu Fang-ming of Taiwan's Taoyuan county government said the 55,115-pound shipment arrived in June and only 21,660 pounds had been recovered.

The number of babies with kidney stones who were fed Sanlu milk has risen to 432 across China, Gao said. He said the government was sending experts to treat them and would pay for their care.

"We are confident that with timely diagnosis and treatment, these infant patients will recover soon," he said.

Chinese investigators are still looking into how and why melamine was added to milk sold to Sanlu, officials said.

Gao said it might have been done to fraudulently increase the milk's volume and fool quality tests. Melamine, used in plastics and other products, is rich in nitrogen, and standard tests for protein in food ingredients measure nitrogen levels. Gao said Chinese law bars the use of the chemical in food.

The company's Web site says it buys milk from a nationwide network of suppliers that includes 60,000 family farms.

Vice Gov. Yang Chongyong of Hebei province, where Sanlu is located, said authorities have seized 2,176 tons of Sanlu baby formula and ordered a recall totaling 8,218 tons � far more than the 700 tons reported in the company's recall announcement Thursday.

Yang said investigators want to know whether word of the contamination was suppressed.

"We will look into whether government at any level was negligent or whether any officials tried to withhold information," he said. "If we find anyone did this, they will be held accountable."

Chinese news reports said officials had evidence of problems as early as mid-July.

The official Xinhua News Agency said health officials in Gansu province in the northwest reported July 16 that 16 infants who drank Sanlu milk were suffering a rare kidney ailment but the government did not conduct a food safety investigation.

A Sanlu manager quoted by the newspaper Beijing News said the company failed to track down the problem until it imported foreign-made testing equipment in August.

This is China's second high-profile case in four years involving harmful baby formula.

In 2004, more than 200 infants suffered malnutrition and at least 12 died after being fed phony formula with no nutrients. Some 40 companies were found to be making phony formula and 47 people were arrested.
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NAVFC



Joined: 10 May 2006

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My guess is someone is getting executed.
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pkang0202



Joined: 09 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WTF? Isn't Breast Milk free? Why the hell would you use formula?
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Gatsby



Joined: 09 Feb 2007

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'll never trust Chinese products


So what are you going to do? Live naked in a desert?
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Bigfeet



Joined: 29 May 2008
Location: Grrrrr.....

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some heads definitely need to roll over this, I mean literally! Evil or Very Mad
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Adventurer



Joined: 28 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gatsby wrote:
Quote:
I'll never trust Chinese products


So what are you going to do? Live naked in a desert?



It is hard to completely avoid Chinese products, but you can buy more American or European products or products from India. Why would anyone put chemicals in baby powder? That makes no sense. Someone may get executed over this. Whoever is responsible and gets executed doesn't have my sympathy, because babies died over this, from what I understand, though I am not a capital punishment fan. You just don't kill babies to make a profit.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys are anti-capitalism. I suppose you want socialistic government safety regulations. Caveat emptor.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Gao, who said the government had launched an emergency inspection of all 175 Chinese companies that produce infant formula, said some of Sanlu's tainted milk powder was exported to Taiwan but none was sold to other foreign markets


Sorry to interrupt the China-bashing. Please continue.
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khyber



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

A Sanlu manager quoted by the newspaper Beijing News said the company failed to track down the problem until it imported foreign-made testing equipment in August.

hmmm...
Even the Chinese are getting on board...
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OneWayTraffic



Joined: 14 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well according to this article it was NZ based Fonterra (supplier of the raw milk used for processing) that actually blew the whistle in the end.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10532214

Quote:
On a conference call he was repeatedly asked why Fonterra did not go public itself earlier and he replied that it would have been irresponsible for Sanlu not to have followed the guidelines of Chinese authorities. Fonterra has a 43 per cent stake in Sanlu.

"I can look myself in the mirror and say Fonterra acted absolutely responsibly in this one. If you don't follow the rules of an individual market place then I think you are getting irresponsible.

"We as a minority shareholder had to continue to push Sanlu. Sanlu had to work with their own government to follow the procedures that they were given," he said.

The Green Party is questioning why Fonterra did not go public. Prime Minister Helen Clark said Fonterra had pushed for a full recall at the earliest possible opportunity but had been blocked by Chinese local government officials.

She said Fonterra approached the New Zealand Government with its concerns. New Zealand then sent Ambassador Tony Brown to make representations about concerns and the national Chinese government acted fast.

"We were the whistleblowers and they leapt in and ensured there was action on the ground."



Interesting interesting. The National government seems to understand public relations better than local governments.
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thiophene



Joined: 15 Sep 2007

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pkang0202 wrote:
WTF? Isn't Breast Milk free? Why the hell would you use formula?

some mothers can't feed their babies.
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OneWayTraffic



Joined: 14 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thiophene wrote:
pkang0202 wrote:
WTF? Isn't Breast Milk free? Why the hell would you use formula?

some mothers can't feed their babies.


Faw fewer than you'd think. Most of the time when mothers have trouble with breastfeeding it's down to inappropiate technique or something else.

There may be exceptions but by far the majority of people who bottle feed either do it for convenience, or because they've been led to believe that it's the 'modern western' way. Interestingly the trend in the west is back to breastfeeding I believe, especially amoung educated mums.

Breastmilk is always delivered in the right amounts at the right temperature, with immune pumping antibodies and containing the right amount of nutrients for the time of the day. It's hard to beat millions of years of evolution.
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thiophene



Joined: 15 Sep 2007

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OneWayTraffic wrote:
thiophene wrote:
pkang0202 wrote:
WTF? Isn't Breast Milk free? Why the hell would you use formula?

some mothers can't feed their babies.


Faw fewer than you'd think. Most of the time when mothers have trouble with breastfeeding it's down to inappropiate technique or something else.

There may be exceptions but by far the majority of people who bottle feed either do it for convenience, or because they've been led to believe that it's the 'modern western' way. Interestingly the trend in the west is back to breastfeeding I believe, especially amoung educated mums.

Breastmilk is always delivered in the right amounts at the right temperature, with immune pumping antibodies and containing the right amount of nutrients for the time of the day. It's hard to beat millions of years of evolution.

I'm sorry i may be pmsing but what makes you tink it's fewer than I (or some) think. I could have an accurate idea on why some women can't breastfeed. I know you're trying to help babies so I appreciate that part.
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OneWayTraffic



Joined: 14 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thiophene wrote:
OneWayTraffic wrote:
thiophene wrote:
pkang0202 wrote:
WTF? Isn't Breast Milk free? Why the hell would you use formula?

some mothers can't feed their babies.


Faw fewer than you'd think. Most of the time when mothers have trouble with breastfeeding it's down to inappropiate technique or something else.

There may be exceptions but by far the majority of people who bottle feed either do it for convenience, or because they've been led to believe that it's the 'modern western' way. Interestingly the trend in the west is back to breastfeeding I believe, especially amoung educated mums.

Breastmilk is always delivered in the right amounts at the right temperature, with immune pumping antibodies and containing the right amount of nutrients for the time of the day. It's hard to beat millions of years of evolution.

I'm sorry i may be pmsing but what makes you tink it's fewer than I (or some) think. I could have an accurate idea on why some women can't breastfeed. I know you're trying to help babies so I appreciate that part.


Because if it was, it's unlikely that our species would be around to talk about it. A few percent is possible, much more than that and you run into natural selection in a big way.

So I'd conclude that it's largely a modern issue. Either lifestyles or diet or modern medicine or something getting in the way.

And a quick google pulled up this link:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/58772.php

I wonder how many women in third world countries can't breastfeed?

FYI My wife breastfed both our kids and there is a lot of support these days to help mothers nurse. With our first, she had a very bad yeast infection which didn't make it fun at all. But the hospital got her and the baby through it. Our second has almost never tasted formula. So I'd conclude that in at least 90% of cases: where there is a will, there is a way. Some find it easier than others.
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thiophene



Joined: 15 Sep 2007

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OneWayTraffic wrote:
thiophene wrote:
OneWayTraffic wrote:
thiophene wrote:
pkang0202 wrote:
WTF? Isn't Breast Milk free? Why the hell would you use formula?

some mothers can't feed their babies.


Faw fewer than you'd think. Most of the time when mothers have trouble with breastfeeding it's down to inappropiate technique or something else.

There may be exceptions but by far the majority of people who bottle feed either do it for convenience, or because they've been led to believe that it's the 'modern western' way. Interestingly the trend in the west is back to breastfeeding I believe, especially amoung educated mums.

Breastmilk is always delivered in the right amounts at the right temperature, with immune pumping antibodies and containing the right amount of nutrients for the time of the day. It's hard to beat millions of years of evolution.

I'm sorry i may be pmsing but what makes you tink it's fewer than I (or some) think. I could have an accurate idea on why some women can't breastfeed. I know you're trying to help babies so I appreciate that part.


Because if it was, it's unlikely that our species would be around to talk about it. A few percent is possible, much more than that and you run into natural selection in a big way.

So I'd conclude that it's largely a modern issue. Either lifestyles or diet or modern medicine or something getting in the way.

And a quick google pulled up this link:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/58772.php

I wonder how many women in third world countries can't breastfeed?

FYI My wife breastfed both our kids and there is a lot of support these days to help mothers nurse. With our first, she had a very bad yeast infection which didn't make it fun at all. But the hospital got her and the baby through it. Our second has almost never tasted formula. So I'd conclude that in at least 90% of cases: where there is a will, there is a way. Some find it easier than others.

I think you're misunderstanding me. My beef is what makes you think I have no idea on the subject. All I said was some can't feed. I wasn't making any innacurate assumptions on the % of women who can't breastfeed or whatever you're assuming I think. Some women just can't or shouldn't breastfeed which is why formula is sometimes used. I realize this is sooooooooo off topic and totallyludicrous to even bother with...I think I'm really bored. Anyways, kudos to you for having the will! Very Happy
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