Korean Job Discussion Forums

Ed Provencher · Joined: 15 Oct 2006

I am studying Korean and learning about Korean culture as I do it. Last night I realized how much I dislike the built-in heirarchy rules in Korean society.

Last night, I met some random Korean men who were sitting next to me at dinner, all of which were older than me. Our relative ages were sorted out as soon as we began talking.

To make a long story short, I need to set some rules for how I let Koreans talk to me. Basically, I need to recognize when a jerk-hole Korean is trying to use his age to pump up his ego, and I need to explain to him that social rules like that don't apply to me because I'm American and don't play that game.

I am trying really hard to learn Korean and have been allowing myself recently to immerse in Korean customs, so in a way, I did it to myself. Lesson learned.

winterwawa · Joined: 06 May 2007

You may be an American, but if you are going to use the Korean langauge, then you have to play by their rules. Your age, social standing and type of relationships all play a part in the type of language that you use and that they (the koreans) use with you.

You say you are studying the culture? I suggest you keep studying.

seoulteacher · Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Location: Seoul

Ed Provencher · Joined: 15 Oct 2006

Ed Provencher · Joined: 15 Oct 2006

aka Dave · Joined: 02 May 2008 Location: Down by the river

The thing is, the social rules are built into the language. If you addressed an elder as you addressed a child, it wouldn't simply be wrong socially, it would be ungrammatical.

You can't seperate the culture from the grammar, they're intertwined.

Unposter · Joined: 04 Jun 2006

All culture changes.

If a significant amount of people want to change the social hierarchy rules in Korea, it could change too. Language and language rules do change, though historically the process has been quite slow.

I think someday it is possible for Korean not to embed social relations but I think it would take some social will and some time. I would not be overly discouraging to the OP. I am sure there are Koreans who love to see that change.

seoulteacher · Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Location: Seoul

Ed, perhaps you'd best ask foreigners who've reached a higher level of Korean than you how to handle these situations. As much as I see where you're coming from, I don't have the experience to help, as I'm guessing would be the case for 90% of us on this board.

Or, alternatively, seek the counsel of sympathetic and understanding Koreans?

Good luck, and I wouldn't worry: the strong desire you have to learn Korean will keep you in good stead with Koreans, and the ones that matter will be honoured. Just try your best to overlook any rude ones!

Ed Provencher · Joined: 15 Oct 2006

endo · Joined: 14 Mar 2004 Location: Seoul...my home

When I speak Korean (the limited amount that I do) to older Koreans, I don't mind conforming to their age stauts in terms of my vocabulary.

But when one of them tries to pull a superiority trip (which I see many older Korean adults do to younger ones) I just don't put up with it.

You have those older Koreans (particulary men, and particulary when they are drinking) who feel that it's okay to interupt or do other things that are considered rude from my point of view solely on the basis that they are older.

You also have younger Koreans who automatically submit to their elders and frankly act like a little biatch in front of them to appease their needs.

Like I said, I will conform my vocabulary with the elders (to a point), but I almost never play some of the other cultural rules which I disagee with.

I especially hate when a Korean tells me how to act or how to thank someone. I'm not Korean, I don't want to be fake, and I have to do things sometimes in my own way.

Just because we're learning the language, it doesn't mean we have to turn into full blooded Koreans. Korean culture especially its hierarchical Confuscionist based one is important to undestand when learning the language. But it's not everything. And culture should never excuse someone from being an a-hole.

aka Dave · Joined: 02 May 2008 Location: Down by the river

OnTheOtherSide · Joined: 29 Feb 2008

This is one good reason to NOT learn Korean. It's full of BS like this. I'm just gonna keep it real and keep it English. I'm happy with the 10 or 20 Korean words that I know. I would rather be blissfully ignorant about the things these people say as I walk by them on the street anyway.

Join Me · Joined: 14 Jan 2008

When I speak with older Koreans I always speak the standard politeness level (존댓말) and I have never had any problems. Most Koreans understand you are a foreigner and appreciate that you are trying to learn Korean. Sometimes when I speak with my landlady (often actually) I slip up and speak the lowest politeness level (반말) as I usually run into her right after coming home from school and being around the kids all day. Her and the other neighbor ladies just laugh at me. They know Korean is not an easy language to master but they are always trying to help me and offer encouragement.

I think most people who are trying to learn Korean will find if they stay away from drunks they will be allowed a great deal of flexibility in an otherwise rigid system.

Paji eh Wong · Joined: 03 Jun 2003

Oreovictim · Joined: 23 Aug 2006

I think that you're first mistake was hanging around with older Korean men.

I have Korean friends who are in their mid-to-late '20s, and they're okay. However, I've been around Korean guys in their 40s and up, and frankly, I think that a lot of them are complete a$$holes.

If they were making you mad, you should have gotten up and said, "Well, I've got to go. I'm meeting two different KOREAN women tonight." Something like that, anyway.