Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Yu_Bum_suk]

So with exam reviews under way there's still no end to the confusion over questions that shouldn't even be on the test in first place. First a gaggle of students came to me with:

"A book may be compared to the life of your neighbor. If it is good, it ________ last ______ long. If bad, you cannot get rid of it too early."

Wanting to know what the right answer should be. Well, there could be dozens of right answers. I suggested 'it could last very long'. Well, it turns out that it's a 100-year-old quotation from some English poet with the grammar modernised and spelling Americanised, and the "correct" answer is 'it cannot last too long'. Fine, if the test is on memorising old quotations. But how the hell is that kind of question going to help Korean students with anything, even grammar?

Then another English teacher came to me with a questions about who and whom. Why even put it on the test if you're not sure? Well, the rules depend on which grammarian you talk to (or should that be to whom you talk?). Most British, Canadian, and Australian grammarians would insist on 'whom' if it's the object, but these days many American grammarians would say that either's fine for the object. But really, if our students could come up with sentences that used either who or whom as an object and were otherwise accurate and comprehensible wouldn't we be jumping for joy? I would even if my co-teachers could make sentences that were accurate apart from who/whom.

When students and their parents get so stressed out over such useless, flawed tests it really makes me wonder what's the point in them even trying.

[fustiancorduroy]

Indeed, many Korean English tests cover obscure grammatical rules and use unnatural phrasing. I feel the biggest offender is the TEPS test, where native speakers rarely get a score in the "native-level" range of 900 and above. What kind of English test does a native-English speaking college graduate not get a perfect or near-perfect score on? One that isn't worthwhile, that's for sure. Fortunately, the TEPS test is being abandoned in favor of the much-better TOEFL test.

[some waygug-in]

I think some of the guys who wrote these tests were proud to boast that, "even many native-speakers don't know these questions".

While it may have done much to inflate the test makers' egos, it does little to help students learn and or improve their English skills.

[ddeubel]

Well they are writing a new test BUT I really think this model should be thrown out....

Testing is for the teacher to adjust the teaching. For the student to reflect on their own learning. NOT for labeling or administration or streaming or whatever else.....

Won't happen I know but it is the same everywhere, every school almost, anywhere in the world. The test is a testament of the person -- seems adults are so good at throwing the first stone......

DD
http://eflclassroom.ning.com

[WoBW]

[Whistleblower]

Testing in a society which congratulates people for their cunning use of "hacking" is going to be a cause for concern. Also the tests are really testing the child's ability to remember information rather than use the knowledge they have to use practically in a test.

Although there are some advantages to testing the knowledge of children in tests, it is absolutely terrible for English Tests. There must be a speaking component for a test to check the ability of English with students.

Being a certified examiner, I am constantly surprised that candidates are unable to speak fluently and effectively. Candidates have very good vocabulary and knowledge of grammar rules but are unable to listen to a sentence or question well.

Sometimes (and quite rarely) I have a candidate that is fluent in English and able to listen to English fairly effectively. When I ask people how long they have studied English, it is embarrasing that they are unable to communicate to English speakers well.

The whole testing system for English in Korea needs to be abolished and changed. This will take a long time but I see Korea is changing. The thing with languages, there is never one correct answer and the sooner examiners in public schools realise this the better.

I wish native speakers were used productively in the testing and grading of students in public schools. Ohh well, one can only wish.

[Yu_Bum_suk]

[ricky_lamour]

I was surprised to find out that the tests taken over the last couple of weeks in my school were set bet the teachers themselves. Of course the week before the tests all of my co-teachers came to ask if they could take my classes to "prepare" them!
So no wonder I had very excited students coming up to me this week telling me they got "beg! beg! beg!" in their test. Yet they can't even tell me their score in English.
If I hadn't been given the best part of 2 weeks free to "meditate" I would have been outraged.
Its their system, its their way, its their culture, its their cock-up, its their problem. Thanks for the money and good luck for the future.

[0916]

[ddeubel]

Here's a video/song to show coteachers. They might get the meaning and drift. It was written as a reaction to No child Left behind and all the essentialist crap that has been thrown at teachers in the u.s. But equally valid in our context here.....

Not On The Test
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dAujuqCo7s&fmt=6

The &fmt=6 at the end of a youtube video will bring you better quality....just incase you might have noticed my addition.....

DD
http://eflclassroom.ning.com

[Whistleblower]

[some waygug-in]

[ernie]

i really like the idea of studying english at a level or two lower than what you can handle... it's like playing the piano: you need to practice a song a million times at about half its actual speed in order to play it properly... only once you've mastered it should you bother playing it at full speed! even the best musicians in the world practice at a snail's pace in order to hammer out the rough spots!

besides, anything that gives students a confidence boost is a good thing!

[ED209]

[Whistleblower]

But it isn't just vocabulary that they are lacking. They have no understanding of phrasal verbs, something that "make up" a lot of the English language. I always ask students what new hobby they would like to "take up" and have no understanding of the meaning.

Words are words but meaning is different.