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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject: The Next New Deal |
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Here's an opinion piece that looks forward to the future. It's got some interesting ideas in it. Any reactions? Additions?
The Gilded Age of George Bush ends; the era of reform with Barack Obama begins. The great realignment is at hand, with prospects rising for a Democratic president and Congress with expanded majorities to initiate a new era of historic patriotic reform.
http://thehill.com/brent-budowsky/the-next-new-deal-2008-10-14.html |
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Tiger Beer

Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:37 am Post subject: |
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There is a lot that can be done. Eight years of NO investment or business incentives or anything else into the United States. Everything went abroad into destroying and rebuilding other countries. The only thing Bush did domestically was encourage consumer spending and the housing bubble with strong encouragement to reduce interest rates to give Americans a false sense of security that the economy was actually running on something else. We all know what happened with that.
With a new party in office, I can see the U.S. looking at itself domestically again and what it needs to get the economy running again (even if in a recession).
The war in Iraq and Afghanistan will continue to bankrupt us, and I don't see any immediate changes there, and perhaps even more effort into Afghanistan is needed, and chasing down Osama Bin Ladin is needed (although financially VERY undesireable for the country, but perhaps sadly necessary).
However one of the big changes could be to stop building massive structures all over Iraq like the massive U.S. embassy on prime Baghdad real estate and all the other U.S. stuff all over the place over there. Perhaps if some of that cashflow going that way could be diverted to domestic interests, for example, financial incentives to get other energies on track. Obama has always been a strong nuclear energy supporter, and his home state of Illinois is one of the largest users of nuclear energy. It is an option, as are wind farms (heaven knows, half of the States have so much wind, if there were any encouragement there whatsoever, it would be massive. Solar energy as well. Also encouragement into other fuel sources such as what some entrpreneurs are doing in some states avoiding gas altogether (and this could be encouraged nationwide). Electronic cars could EASILY be a huge new market, with electric chargers being everywhere, and less money spent on fuel would give average people more spending to spend on things DOMESTICALLY and not oil from the Middle East.
I don't think ANYTHING will be done healthcare wise under Obama except making INSURANCE available to more people, but I suppose even that is better than entire large groups with NO insurance and paying the immense inflated prices. That entire system is so corrupt, and the only way to change that is to get rid of it altogether and start again. But sadly both candidates just talk about band-aids to the problem, and Obama's seems to be the bigger band-aid, but I don't see any surgery being done there under either potential administration.
Sorry, those were just my own ideas/thoughts, not entirely related to the posted article, but just along the same vein. |
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sojourner1

Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Location: Where meggi swim and 2 wheeled tractors go sput put chug alugg pug pug
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Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:33 am Post subject: |
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Tiger Beer, you are so correct. Well written post.
I can't understand why America doesn't invest nothing into it's country, people, and economy while sending all the wealth over seas. How does sending it all overseas help America?
The government failed the people and it's time the people take a stand. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:36 am Post subject: |
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There's no money for it. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
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Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:59 am Post subject: |
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Kuros wrote: |
There's no money for it. |
Exactly. The first task will be cleaning up the budget from the mess Bush left. That will take years. But you can't win an election promising nothing aside from reality. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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That was, after all, Reagan's plan according to David Stockman his Budget Director or whatever he was. Spend the country so far into debt that social spending would be impossible. It was kind of like playing a game of chicken. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
That was, after all, Reagan's plan according to David Stockman his Budget Director or whatever he was. Spend the country so far into debt that social spending would be impossible. It was kind of like playing a game of chicken. |
Yeah. Its a hell of a choice. Taxandspendocrats or Repo-blicans. Have to go with the former.
I miss Bill Clinton.  |
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Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
The Gilded Age of George Bush ends; the era of reform with Barack Obama begins. The great realignment is at hand, with prospects rising for a Democratic president and Congress with expanded majorities to initiate a new era of historic patriotic reform. |
My reaction is this: B. Obama's supporters' hopes and dreams continue to betray sweeping, grandiose idealism that so far exceeds reality that I do not know how to react to them. Actually, I do: this kind of beyond-arrogant nonsense makes me truly hope that something occurs that costs B. Obama the election before November. Then I can rub these kinds of articles in his supporters' faces after that event. You have not even won the election and you are already writing and interpreting history.
I also know that I do not want to be B. Obama when he fails to turn back the water, realign the planets, and heal the world as these people expect and then they turn on him -- just as they turned on, to cite a particularly relevant example, FDR, especially in the late-1960s through the late-1970s. Or how about their turning against B. Clinton, "not a bad president for a Republican," remember?
Do you truly expect B. Obama to usher in "a great realigment," "a new era of historic, patriotic reform," etc.? This kind of propaganda approaches Orwellian proportions. This author almost talks about him with the kind of love and reverence someone in Oceania might reveal when talking about Big Brother. And the attempted power-assertion-through-words is undeniable in this article.
What about you? Do you ascribe B. Obama the power to levitate at will, too, Ya-ta Boy? |
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Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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Gopher wrote: |
Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
The Gilded Age of George Bush ends; the era of reform with Barack Obama begins. The great realignment is at hand, with prospects rising for a Democratic president and Congress with expanded majorities to initiate a new era of historic patriotic reform. |
My reaction is this: B. Obama's supporters' hopes and dreams continue to betray sweeping, grandiose idealism that so far exceeds reality that I do not know how to react to them. Actually, I do: this kind of beyond-arrogant nonsense makes me truly hope that something occurs that costs B. Obama the election before November. Then I can rub these kinds of articles in his supporters' faces after that event. You have not even won the election and you are already writing and interpreting history.
I also know that I do not want to be B. Obama when he fails to turn back the water, realign the planets, and heal the world as these people expect and then they turn on him -- just as they turned on, to cite a particularly relevant example, FDR, especially in the late-1960s through the late-1970s. Or how about their turning against B. Clinton, "not a bad president for a Republican," remember?
Do you truly expect B. Obama to usher in "a great realigment," "a new era of historic, patriotic reform," etc.? This kind of propaganda approaches Orwellian proportions. This author almost talks about him with the kind of love and reverence someone in Oceania might reveal when talking about Big Brother. And the attempted power-assertion-through-words is undeniable in this article.
What about you? Do you ascribe B. Obama the power to levitate at will, too, Ya-ta Boy? |
I expect Obama to bring in some regulations, study what happened and what caused the economic problems America faces and has faced, pay off the deficit, raise taxes somewhat for the very wealthy and decreasing taxes moderately for the middle class. I am not expecting the world from Barak Obama.
The GOP had 8 years and we've had taxes slashed on the wealthy and then entry into a war, religious talk, a focus on fear of gay people to distract the people from the problems associated with Bush, the abuse of power etc.......Many people know people who voted for the GOP in 2000 and 2004 who will be voting for Obama, not because we expect major changes, but hopefully less of business as usual. It is normal during an election to make big promises. McCain is doing that as well. Without a strong economy, social programs are basically meaningless. America cannot afford major spending on social programs unless there are cuts to the budget in some areas. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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What I'm taking out of your post, Gopher, is that you think Obama might pull off a major political realignment. |
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Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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Adventurer: get out of the "either-B. Obama-or-GOP" chant. Sooner or later, you are going to have to define yourselves without referencing the Republicans. I am not asking you to vote for the Republicans when I critique B. Obama's supporters on this messageboard. There is nothing to decipher here.
And Ya-ta Boy: let me restate: I believe that B. Obama's core supporters, the chanting ones, are "high" on something. |
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Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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Gopher wrote: |
Adventurer: get out of the "either-B. Obama-or-GOP" chant. Sooner or later, you are going to have to define yourselves without referencing the Republicans. I am not asking you to vote for the Republicans when I critique B. Obama's supporters on this messageboard. There is nothing to decipher here.
And Ya-ta Boy: let me restate: I believe that B. Obama's core supporters, the chanting ones, are "high" on something. |
Gopher, there are only two political parties. One horse had a go with it and did horrible. I am going with the horse called Obama. I don't really trust the other horse. You don't have much variety in the political system. This is not Germany, Israel, or Italy as you well know, Gopher.
I lean towards the Democrats. Again, all you have are two parties you can really choose from. What is wrong with supporters being excited about Barrak Obama. I am assuming many Bush supporters were excited about Bush when he ran in 2000. It is normal in politics, Gopher, to see many people excited about a candidate. Is it really something so novel? I think not. |
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Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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You are missing my point, Adventurer. I do not care how many parties exist or which one you consider the righteous one.
Are you telling me that you do not find it unreasonable but rather "normal" that B. Obama has just exceeded the existing JFK comparison and moved on to a new and improved FDR comparison -- while still in October?
This is even worse than J. McCain's repeatedly comparing himself to "Luke Skywalker" during the primaries in 2000. People need to get a grip. |
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Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:33 am Post subject: |
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Gopher wrote: |
You are missing my point, Adventurer. I do not care how many parties exist or which one you consider the righteous one.
Are you telling me that you do not find it unreasonable but rather "normal" that B. Obama has just exceeded the existing JFK comparison and moved on to a new and improved FDR comparison -- while still in October?
This is even worse than J. McCain's repeatedly comparing himself to "Luke Skywalker" during the primaries in 2000. People need to get a grip. |
The reason for that, Gopher, is rather simple. There has been talk of major financial devastation unseen since the Greeat Depression. When have we had banks go under like that? Many people state such a thing hasn't happened since the Great Depression. That's why people talk about the New Deal and FDR; that is why many have said he might have to have similar policies in spirit as FDR. That's all speculation. We don't know what Obama will have to do. We do not have the level of unemployment, percentage wise, that existed during the Great Depression. However, 2 million people have lost their homes. The Kennedys and others compared Obama to Kennedy, because he is very articulate and charismatic; Kennedy was articulate and charismatic.
At any rate, where did Obama compare himself to JFK or FDR? I would be more than interested in a quote that you could produce, Gopher.
It may appear to some reading what you wrote that you are making such a claim. Why? It's because you said it would be worse than McCain comparing himself to Luke Skywalker. Thus, it would lead one to think, from reading your writing, that Obama is comparing himself with FDR and JFK. If that's what you are saying, give us the quotes. If not, clarify yourself.
Thank you,
Adventurer |
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bacasper

Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:58 am Post subject: |
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Gopher wrote: |
Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
The Gilded Age of George Bush ends; the era of reform with Barack Obama begins. The great realignment is at hand, with prospects rising for a Democratic president and Congress with expanded majorities to initiate a new era of historic patriotic reform. |
My reaction is this: B. Obama's supporters' hopes and dreams continue to betray sweeping, grandiose idealism that so far exceeds reality that I do not know how to react to them. |
Ya-ta et al.:
I really hate you guys putting me in a position to agree with Gopher here, but on this he is right on the money.
As if any of your standard Republocrats would make any significant difference. Presidents may change often, but the captains of capital do not.
"Give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who makes its laws." - Mayer Anselm Rothschild
With President Biraq "Who's sane?" Osama, all you will get is MOS - more of the same.
"This is not about a black face in a high place." - Malcolm X |
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