Korean Job Discussion Forums

withnail · Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Location: Seoul, South Korea.

Still don't get it why MAs = good English teachers for Korean Unis.

IMHO experience/qualifications should be more highly valued than any old MA.

I do concede that an MA in TESOL is valuable but unless it was one of those which had built in teacher training (preferably observed teaching practice) it shouldn't spell "good English teacher" to unis.

I just don't see why a newbie with an MA should beat out an experienced, properly qualified ESL teacher for a Uni job.

I know it's important for unis to say their staff are well qualified postgrads but an MA won't help with practical teaching in the cold light of day as much as hard won experience added to practical training.

Tommy · Joined: 24 Aug 2005

If you think you've got what it takes, then keep applying to these jobs and state your case. I know plenty of people working at uni's without MA's. It's mostly about connections though.

bassexpander · Joined: 13 Sep 2007 Location: Someplace you'd rather be.

Mr. Pink · Joined: 21 Oct 2003 Location: China

I think pure EFL classes at a university shouldn't be so picky, as you aren't doing any researching, but rather using your foreign face to make the university money. I do think though that having a B.Ed with some ESL training, a TESOL certificate or MA TESOL should give one preference. (I don't mean those 2 bit certificates either, I am talking about a full year at a university type...not the 1 month joke ones. - CELTA excluded)

The problem with experience, is how do you know someone is really good? I've hired people with years of experience and reference letters etc., that were plan TERRIBLE at teaching. Koreans give out references way too easily. So you say you are an excellent teacher - how do you prove that? Also, what makes you think the place you are applying cares? I know it sucks, but some places go with a person's appearance and degrees over how good they actually are.

laogaiguk · Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Location: somewhere in Korea

It's not just Korean universities. I think that is generally found everywhere. I have seen some people with MAs who should never be allowed in a classroom. I have seen the opposite too. I have seen people with just a CELTA teach better than people with PhDs. Still, when you were in university, would you have wanted someone teaching you who wasn't atleast working on their masters? I doubt it very much.

I got into some really good unis with only my bachelors though. You just have to show them you can do it. Unless you can, there is a better chance that someone with experience and a masters will be better than someone with just experience.

You should also look into getting one if you are going to stay in the field. Not for advancement, but for yourself. Nowadays, it's just a little to easy to get one.

withnail · Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Location: Seoul, South Korea.

useful replies. thanks

Snowkr · Joined: 03 Jun 2005

OP, I agree with you completely.

I have an MA in TESOL (not done online) and while I now have heaps of book knowledge about theory/methodology and practice, there is still no subsitute for experience. I

I work with people who have only B.A.'s or M.A.'s in other fields but they have so much more practical experience in this field. I am not in their league regardless of that expensive piece of paper I slaved over back in my own country.

PRagic · Joined: 24 Feb 2006

Welcome to Korea, where a hierarchal set up rules the day. Actually, at least in N. America and G.B. (from my buddies' input), the MA is required to teach in university programs.

In general, you can look at the MA as a sign that the person has a higher committment to higher education. Sure, experience helps, but who are you going to hire if you have an experienced person with an MA and one with a BA? No brainer.

Plus, let's be realistic. Again, speaking in generalities, students paying for an education like to learn from someone who is at least one grade level above them. I know I did.

And for the people who continue to teach at the university level with only a BA, well, congrats on the one hand. But on the other hand, you're not gaining additional experience over the years, you're repeating the stuff you know and use over and over again. Who wants to learn from a rut? (from a good poster I once saw.) An MA, especially in a related field, keeps people abreast of current trends, both in pedagogy and in research.

Sure, we've all had Ph.D. holding profs who couldn't teach their way out of a paper bag. A lot of times, though, they can be valuable to the students in terms of dicipline specific knowledge and thesis/dissertation guidance.

The long and short of it is that better universities with better programs and better students want people with higher degrees than the BA. Now, can Korean universities attract a sufficient number of MA and Ph.D. holders? Probably not for ESL classes. So we're starting to see the development of a two-tier system: BA holders will teach in unigwons or be milked for all their worth in lower-tiered university programs. MA holders with experience and related certifications (CELTA/DELTA) will be in regular departments (unless they can get a Ph.D. to replace them), or in teacher training programs in either English or Education programs.

If you want to work at a university, then the piece of paper is the key to the door. If you can find a job with a BA, great, but don't count on the conditions staying the same (actually, count on them worsening). Sooner or later, you'll have to pony up and do the time for your MA. In other countries, the Ph.D. is already the only way in.

Snowkr · Joined: 03 Jun 2005

also true!!
the post above...

withnail · Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Location: Seoul, South Korea.

yep. good reply from PRagic but....

laogaiguk · Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Location: somewhere in Korea

withnail · Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Location: Seoul, South Korea.

agreed

different · Joined: 22 May 2003

I also don't understand how an MA in some field *unrelated to EFL teaching* would make somebody a better EFL teacher.

PRagic · Joined: 24 Feb 2006

The sentence reads, "An MA IN A RELATED FIELD...," meaning related to ESL teaching.

And I disagree. If you 'spend time thinking about your teaching', you're reinventing the wheel. To boot, you might be reinventing an old wheel that nobody uses any more!

Also, I admitted that most of the 'College English' type classes are Dick and Jane stuff; sure, anyone can teach them. But I also said that this is one of the reasons that conditions will worsen for people who only have their BA.

Briefly, these are university jobs we're talking about, and degrees are the currency that universities deal in. If you don't like it, accept the conditions you can get with your BA and consider yourself disposable. Sounds harsh, but that's the way it is.

MA_TESOL · Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Location: Seoul

I did a 2 year residential MA that included a semester of observed teaching in a community college. When I graduated, I realized that I did not know anything about teaching, so I made a plan that has worked for me. I knew I needed experience, so I signed up to teach Korean businessmen for 40-47 classroom hours a week for one year. That gained me a little experience, so I applied for a university position. I got a position teaching an average of 20 hours a week and remained there for 4.5 years. Then I applied for another position at a university and this semester I work 10 hours a week and have a much better situation. So I figured that both an MA Tesol coupled with experience to be the ideal. Now, I have both.

When I first started teaching, I observed that many of my friends with a BA were excellent in the classroom and many of them went on to get an MA. But my primary focus has been how I can be a better teacher and how I can improve my situation.