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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:01 pm Post subject: B. Obama and Gays in the Armed Forces... |
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This issue has emerged again.
Several alternatives appear and this CNN report does not seem to state them straightfowardly. It seems, however, that the President-elect will either...
(a) terminate "don't ask/don't tell" and affirm gays' exclusion from the armed forces;
(b) terminate "don't ask/don't tell" and direct the armed forces to include them openly; or
(c) leave things as they are, "request further studies," etc.
Obama needs to do this right and non-dogmatically, unlike B. Clinton in 1993, or he will provoke another N. Gingrich. In any case, let the pressure and press-wars begin...
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WASHINGTON -- More than 100 retired U.S. military leaders -- including the former head of the Naval Academy -- have signed a statement calling for an end to the military's "don't ask-don't tell" policy, according to a California-based think tank that supports the movement.
Retired Adm. Charles Larson, the former Naval Academy superintendent, tops the list of 104 retired general[s] and admirals who want the government to repeal the policy, the Palm Center at the University of California, Santa Barbara, announced Monday.
"Don't ask-don't tell" was made law in 1993 after opposition ballooned to newly elected President Bill Clinton's plan to lift the military's complete ban on gay service members. The new policy stopped the practice of asking potential service members if they are gay but still required the dismissal of openly gay service members.
The Palm Center, which circulated the statement calling for the repeal of the "don't ask-don't tell" policy, is looking to President-elect Barack Obama to address the controversial issue of gays in the military... |
CNN Reports |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| was this ever brought up during the Bush administration? If not, why is it with Obama? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe it makes a good right-wing talking point?
Dudes sometimes bang each other. I really think it is time for us to get over it (again). |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| was this ever brought up during the Bush administration? If not, why is it with Obama? |
B. Clinton introduced a liberal agenda after twelve years of Republican govt. He aggressively sought to force the military to accept homosexuals in the service in his first one hundred days, which carried over into much of 1993. The military resisted this and compromised with "don't ask/don't tell." After N. Gingrich emerged, the Clinton Administration never had a chance to raise the issue again. But the compromise held.
W. Bush represented eight more years of Republican govt. Conservatives do not raise such issues as these and indeed W. Bush did not. Why would you have expected W. Bush to raise the gays-in-the-military issue during his presidency, Bucheon Bum?
However that may be, comes now B. Obama, another presumed hyperliberal. The military services seem to have anticipated that he will attempt to seize ground on this issue and they and their conservative allies have already begun mobilizing to stop him. Wait and see, like everything else, I imagine.
But if I were advising Obama on this, I would advise him (a) to prioritize his battles in bureaucratic Washington and elsewhere in American politics; and (b) to take slow steps and consolidate his gains in bipartisan fashion rather than moving to take the Liberal Brass Ring in one fell swoop and thus provoke grass-roots conservative backlash.
And this issue and as well as guns can indeed provoke that backlash. Ask B. Clinton: he pursued both at once in 1993...
Last edited by Gopher on Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| was this ever brought up during the Bush administration? If not, why is it with Obama? |
Just what I was thinking while scrolling down the page.
Do you really have to think very hard as to "why now?"
They were largely silent for the last 8 years. Guess the policy was ok with Dubya!!
They are growing more desperate (and stupid) in trying to stir up "issues" for the president elect. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Maybe it makes a good right-wing talking point? |
| canuckistan wrote: |
| They are growing more desperate (and stupid) in trying to stir up "issues" for the president elect. |
Is that so?
"They" have imagined none of this. B. Obama wisely excluded the issue from his platform and he also tried, as he does here, to keep it out of the campaign (although, like J. McCain, he had his base to play to, too, and sometimes it came up). But he has clarified that he intends to expressly fight for equal rights for gays and lesbians in America -- not marriage, but civil unions, but elsewhere...who knows?
It is not desperate or stupid, then, Mises and Canuckistan, to anticipate that he will readdress gays in the military -- especially since he has come on the record and said...
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Obama has said that as president, he would seek to repeal "don't ask-don't tell," but not by signing an executive order, as President Harry Truman did when he abolished segregation the armed services in 1948.
"I would not do it that way," he said in a September 16 interview with Philadelphia Gay News.
"The reason is because I want to make sure that when we reverse 'don't ask-don't tell,' it's gone through a process and we've built a consensus or at least a clarity of ... what my expectations are, so that it works."
"I believe that the way to do it is make sure that we are working through a process, getting the Joint Chiefs of Staff clear in terms of what our priorities are going to be. That's how we were able to integrate the armed services to get women more actively involved in the armed services.
"At some point, you've got to make a decision that that's the right thing to do, but you always want to make sure that you are doing it in a way that maintains our core mission in our military." |
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Jandar
Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know how Presidents spend political capital, but I think making a huge change to Military culture and tradition at a time when you may be asking them to retreat from a battlefield is not a good idea.
I think the study option is the best strategy for now, maybe as things get settled with the current deployments and re-deployments, then the policies should be changed based on the level of success achieved with the current policy. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:46 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
W. Bush represented eight more years of Republican govt. Conservatives do not raise such issues as these and indeed W. Bush did not. Why would you have expected W. Bush to raise the gays-in-the-military issue during his presidency, Bucheon Bum?
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My thinking was this:
If any President were to touch the issue, it would be a Conservative. To do what? Remove the "don't ask, don't tell" policy and put back the old policy. Also, if I were a military leader, and objected to the policy, I would place more hope in a GOP President for that reason. If some military leaders wanted to scrap Clinton's policy, they should have pressed the issue at some point during Bush's presidency.
No sane Democratic President would go near this issue for the first couple years of his Presidency. It would send a signal to everyone that the dude leans strongly to the left, and while Obama might just do that, I don't think he wants to give it away just yet  .
Basically the timing puzzles me. I guess the best explanation is the one you provided: those military leaders are "pre-empting" any attempt by Obama to liberalize the service even more. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| If any President were to touch the issue, it would be a Conservative. To do what? Remove the "don't ask, don't tell" policy and put back the old policy. |
Why take any action at all when it will only alienate voters? Bad politics. Conservatives are not bad politicians, your disagreements with their politics notwithstanding.
And I do not believe B. Obama has putting back the old policy in mind when he talks about repealing "don't ask/don't tell." But that CNN article never really expressly says what he has in mind. Very interesting the way they wrote that article. |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| was this ever brought up during the Bush administration? If not, why is it with Obama? |
Maybe the generals thought that a "more left leaning" candidate would do a better job of handling the situation.
In which case, they will undoubtedly be correct. |
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DCJames
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| I say Obama governs as a centrist and keeps the staus quo with this one. |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| khyber wrote: |
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| was this ever brought up during the Bush administration? If not, why is it with Obama? |
Maybe the generals thought that a "more left leaning" candidate would do a better job of handling the situation.
In which case, they will undoubtedly be correct. |
I think don't ask don't tell is perfect--it's nobody else's business but one's own. |
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Quack Addict
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| (b) terminate "don't ask/don't tell" and direct the armed forces to include them openly; |
Tell them the enemy is over there and they are right wing Christians who don't want them becoming queerly beloved. They could be the greatest attack force the armed services have ever seen. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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Gays belong in the military.
Anyone familiar with Greek military prowess? |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
Gays belong in the military.
Anyone familiar with Greek military prowess? |
Ha! 
Nothing like a little homoerotic wrasslin' to get the guys motivated. |
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