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English Matt
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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 Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:37 pm Post subject: How common is out and out racism in Korea nowadays? |
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I've certainly read and heard a lot about people's encounters with racism here in Korea, both before and after I arrived here. However, having been here 6 months I experienced 'only' low level stuff - such as taxi drivers not stopping to pick me up, or someone shouting at me for smoking, even though there were plenty of other Koreans around me smoking.
Now, I was able to write this stuff off - half convincing myself that, maybe the taxi driver didn't see me or maybe he was worried about the communication barrier and didn't want to waste time trying to work out where I want to go; equally, maybe the Koreans smoking around me were getting away with it because of their advanced years, and being younger people felt more comfortable challenging me about smoking on the street.
But, this weekend I was out with a friend and went to a nightclub (or should say tried to go to a nightclub) in Suwon. The minute my friend and I approached the door, the bouncer ran out, waving his arms and said "No Americans, Korean nightclub only."
Not wanting trouble, we just decided to hit up Now Bar (a foreigner hangout in Suwon) instead. Later that evening, as we were leaving the bar and talking outside, a random Korean ajossi comes up to us, looks at me and says something that I later find out wasn't exactly a compliment, and proceeds to punch one of the people I was with in the arm.
So, I guess what I'm wondering is - is this sort of thing more prevalent than I had been aware, and do you guys who have been here for a while think that this trend is getting worse / better?
I don't want to hate on Korea, but this sort of thing doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy about this country. |
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Ukon
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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Speaking as black person here, I've experienced zero racism....
Most of the white people complaining about racism are just confused or whiny....go talk to some of my Indian and middle eastern friends about racism in Korea.
As for the night club thing, yeah, we've all been turned away from one of those...unless you wanted to blow $150 on a bottle of whiskey and waiter tips, he saved you a lot of time and money.
Last edited by Ukon on Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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jdog2050
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Ukon wrote: |
Speaking as black person here, I've experienced zero racism....
Most of the white people complaining about racism are just confused or whiny....go talk to some of my indian and middle eastern friends about racism in korea.
As for the night club thing, yeah, we've all been turned away from one of those...unless you wanted to blow $150 on a bottle of whiskey and waiter tips, he saved you a lot of time and money |
Meh, good for you, but I'm also black and have experienced plenty of open racism here. |
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Ukon
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| jdog2050 wrote: |
| Ukon wrote: |
Speaking as black person here, I've experienced zero racism....
Most of the white people complaining about racism are just confused or whiny....go talk to some of my indian and middle eastern friends about racism in korea.
As for the night club thing, yeah, we've all been turned away from one of those...unless you wanted to blow $150 on a bottle of whiskey and waiter tips, he saved you a lot of time and money |
Meh, good for you, but I'm also black and have experienced plenty of open racism here. |
In what way? |
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jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Ukon wrote: |
Most of the white people complaining about racism are just confused or whiny....go talk to some of my Indian and middle eastern friends about racism in Korea.
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You have no idea what you're talking about unless you've seen what's happening in each individual case. |
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jdog2050
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Ukon wrote: |
| jdog2050 wrote: |
| Ukon wrote: |
Speaking as black person here, I've experienced zero racism....
Most of the white people complaining about racism are just confused or whiny....go talk to some of my indian and middle eastern friends about racism in korea.
As for the night club thing, yeah, we've all been turned away from one of those...unless you wanted to blow $150 on a bottle of whiskey and waiter tips, he saved you a lot of time and money |
Meh, good for you, but I'm also black and have experienced plenty of open racism here. |
In what way? |
Ehh, I'm at work right now, so I can't recount 3 years of stuff but:
discrimination while hunting for jobs--literally, sending a resume and getting tons of responses, then sending a picture and suddenly...crickets.
dating--just posted about this, but, I hope you don't end up as some Korean girl's experiment.
kids--this is more innocent, but shows something fundamental. How many of your kids have assumed that you're from Africa, as opposed to America, South America, Central America, Aussie, German, British, etc. |
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IncognitoHFX
Joined: 06 May 2007
Location: Yeongtong, Suwon
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Ukon wrote: |
| Speaking as black person here, I've experienced zero racism... |
I'm just waiting until Koreans say "Obama" everytime they see a black person. 
Do you live in Seoul? I get a little bit out here in Suwon but never enough to ruin my day. My female friends get asked if they're Russian sometimes. That's about it really.
Unless you count overt, unwavering staring as racism. I don't feel like I get stared at any more, but when I'm walking with a friend, I start to catch Koreans staring all the time. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| If you're not white, it's no worse than it is back home. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Let's face it--the people who experience the worst racism are the Korean girls who associate with us. |
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English Matt
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Ukon wrote: |
Speaking as black person here, I've experienced zero racism....
Most of the white people complaining about racism are just confused or whiny....go talk to some of my Indian and middle eastern friends about racism in Korea.
As for the night club thing, yeah, we've all been turned away from one of those...unless you wanted to blow $150 on a bottle of whiskey and waiter tips, he saved you a lot of time and money. |
This wasn't one of those ridiculously expensive places that I hear people talk about. It's just a place that a lot of University students go to. The fact that that sort of thing happens at all to non-Koreans (and it doesn't matter what anybody's skin colour is) is racist and, in my book, really not acceptable.
And yes, as a white guy I am sure I am not getting the roughest edge of the stick. I met some Indian engineers later that night at the Now Bar and they told me that they get treated pretty bad - I in no way intimated that I was treated in the worst way possible in my OP.
I also happen to have black friends here as well, and if you haven't been treated in a racist way yet then I am happy to hear that, however they have many times. One of my friends was Korea's biggest cheerleader until he started having old men punch him on buses.
I would also say that I am not confused or whiny. I was refused a service based on my ethnicity...you know what I didn't feel too good about that and it felt a little bit dehumanising. As I mentioned at the beginning of my post - I have tried to keep an open mind about things such as being passed by by cabs and shouted at in the street, because there was a degree of ambiguity involved.
However, the two incidents that happened to me and my friends at the weekend are in no way ambiguous - as I said, I don't want to hate on Korea but at the same time it doesn't make me feel great about the society I'm living in.
I was merely asking people who have been here for a while if they think this sort of thing is declining or on the upsurge (given the anti-american sentiment in particular that has picked up in the last year due to the FTA and the economic crises in particular).
Last edited by English Matt on Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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EzeWong
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| jdog2050 wrote: |
| Ukon wrote: |
| jdog2050 wrote: |
| Ukon wrote: |
Speaking as black person here, I've experienced zero racism....
Most of the white people complaining about racism are just confused or whiny....go talk to some of my indian and middle eastern friends about racism in korea.
As for the night club thing, yeah, we've all been turned away from one of those...unless you wanted to blow $150 on a bottle of whiskey and waiter tips, he saved you a lot of time and money |
Meh, good for you, but I'm also black and have experienced plenty of open racism here. |
In what way? |
Ehh, I'm at work right now, so I can't recount 3 years of stuff but:
discrimination while hunting for jobs--literally, sending a resume and getting tons of responses, then sending a picture and suddenly...crickets.
dating--just posted about this, but, I hope you don't end up as some Korean girl's experiment.
kids--this is more innocent, but shows something fundamental. How many of your kids have assumed that you're from Africa, as opposed to America, South America, Central America, Aussie, German, British, etc. |
My kids are hella discriminant towards blacks. It makes it hard to love the little buggers because of it. (I'm not black btw. it's just what I see everytime we have a picture of blacks in class, they laugh or do something obnoxious). WE have 1 picture of a black person in our book and he's poor and from Africa.
I haven't seen them very open about it though.
About the bars. That's mostly originated from the GI problem. (well and the fact that you oozing all over their women Korean men get jealous).
So they avoid the problem altogether by kicking us out. |
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justaguy
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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You will encounter more racism if you meet a lot of racists.
I haven't met many, but I neither care what they think of me anyway. |
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Ukon
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| jdog2050 wrote: |
| Ukon wrote: |
| jdog2050 wrote: |
| Ukon wrote: |
Speaking as black person here, I've experienced zero racism....
Most of the white people complaining about racism are just confused or whiny....go talk to some of my indian and middle eastern friends about racism in korea.
As for the night club thing, yeah, we've all been turned away from one of those...unless you wanted to blow $150 on a bottle of whiskey and waiter tips, he saved you a lot of time and money |
Meh, good for you, but I'm also black and have experienced plenty of open racism here. |
In what way? |
Ehh, I'm at work right now, so I can't recount 3 years of stuff but:
discrimination while hunting for jobs--literally, sending a resume and getting tons of responses, then sending a picture and suddenly...crickets.
dating--just posted about this, but, I hope you don't end up as some Korean girl's experiment.
kids--this is more innocent, but shows something fundamental. How many of your kids have assumed that you're from Africa, as opposed to America, South America, Central America, Aussie, German, British, etc. |
Total opposite of my job hunt...I had schools begging me with picture.
Dating, too early to tell.
My kids ALWAYS say mi gook....older Koreans always assume the same...I've only gotten African twice and middle eastern once...Everyone just assumes Mi gook. I'm mixed though, and I figured I'd be considered indian...that wasn't the case at all. |
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Ukon
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| EzeWong wrote: |
| jdog2050 wrote: |
| Ukon wrote: |
| jdog2050 wrote: |
| Ukon wrote: |
Speaking as black person here, I've experienced zero racism....
Most of the white people complaining about racism are just confused or whiny....go talk to some of my indian and middle eastern friends about racism in korea.
As for the night club thing, yeah, we've all been turned away from one of those...unless you wanted to blow $150 on a bottle of whiskey and waiter tips, he saved you a lot of time and money |
Meh, good for you, but I'm also black and have experienced plenty of open racism here. |
In what way? |
Ehh, I'm at work right now, so I can't recount 3 years of stuff but:
discrimination while hunting for jobs--literally, sending a resume and getting tons of responses, then sending a picture and suddenly...crickets.
dating--just posted about this, but, I hope you don't end up as some Korean girl's experiment.
kids--this is more innocent, but shows something fundamental. How many of your kids have assumed that you're from Africa, as opposed to America, South America, Central America, Aussie, German, British, etc. |
My kids are hella discriminant towards blacks. It makes it hard to love the little buggers because of it. (I'm not black btw. it's just what I see everytime we have a picture of blacks in class, they laugh or do something obnoxious). WE have 1 picture of a black person in our book and he's poor and from Africa.
I haven't seen them very open about it though.
About the bars. That's mostly originated from the GI problem. (well and the fact that you oozing all over their women Korean men get jealous).
So they avoid the problem altogether by kicking us out. |
Just becuase they say *** about black people doesn't mean they're racist...they don't know any black people so how can they be racists? I doubt everyone I've met is a extremely open minded individual
Reminds me of a study we learned in one my psychology classes...they asked a bunch of restaurants in France if they would serve the Chinese...many said they wouldn't do such a thing...then they came back and had a Chinese guy walk in...I forgot the exact results, but nearly every restaurant if not all served the Chinese guy they sent in...people talk alot of smack about so and so, but if they don't have any personal experience to back it up, it's not something to take seriously. |
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I'm no Picasso
Joined: 28 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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You wanna get screamed at for smoking on the street, try being a woman while you do it. Try watching your male coworkers go in and out of the "men's" teachers' lounge, wafting fresh cigarette smoke into your face with every swing of the door while you're stuck chewing on a pen cap for nine hours.
Do we all get treated like freaks to some extent for being anything other than Korean? Yes. Would I compare it to the racism that anyone who isn't white deals with while they are here? Hell no. More times than not, at least in my experience, it's not malicious or even necessarily condescending -- it's just confusion and fascination. And, on the good days, easy enough to laugh off. It's completely different from the total disdain and out-and-out terror I've seen displayed by some otherwise very intelligent and pleasant Koreans toward black people. |
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