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bacasper

Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:57 am Post subject: 20,000 troops inside US by 2011 |
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Don't you feel better knowing the martial law will occur under Obama?
Pentagon to Detail Troops to Bolster Domestic Security
By Spencer S. Hsu and Ann Scott Tyson
Washington Post Staff Writers
Monday, December 1, 2008; Page A01
The U.S. military expects to have 20,000 uniformed troops inside the United States by 2011 trained to help state and local officials respond to a nuclear terrorist attack or other domestic catastrophe, according to Pentagon officials.
The long-planned shift in the Defense Department's role in homeland security was recently backed with funding and troop commitments after years of prodding by Congress and outside experts, defense analysts said.
There are critics of the change, in the military and among civil liberties groups and libertarians who express concern that the new homeland emphasis threatens to strain the military and possibly undermine the Posse Comitatus Act, a 130-year-old federal law restricting the military's role in domestic law enforcement.
But the Bush administration and some in Congress have pushed for a heightened homeland military role since the middle of this decade, saying the greatest domestic threat is terrorists exploiting the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction.
Before the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, dedicating 20,000 troops to domestic response -- a nearly sevenfold increase in five years -- "would have been extraordinary to the point of unbelievable," Paul McHale, assistant defense secretary for homeland defense, said in remarks last month at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. But the realization that civilian authorities may be overwhelmed in a catastrophe prompted "a fundamental change in military culture," he said.
more at link |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:07 am Post subject: |
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This is a good thing.
Those soldiers need to follow protocol, however. |
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sharkey

Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:09 am Post subject: |
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the police state has concluded, now it is the military state.
one of the steps of fascism .. have fun guys |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
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sharkey

Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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canadian example is reactionary
american example is premeditated
big difference
and yet again mises, learn history
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
do you want more examples ?
youre just awful |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
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Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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sharkey wrote: |
the police state has concluded, now it is the military state.
one of the steps of fascism .. have fun guys |
Yeah guys:
Quote: |
Canada, U.S. agree to use each other's troops in civil emergencies
David Pugliese , Canwest News Service
Published: Friday, February 22, 2008
Canada and the U.S. have signed an agreement that paves the way for the militaries from either nation to send troops across each other's borders during an emergency, but some are questioning why the Harper government has kept silent on the deal.
Neither the Canadian government nor the Canadian Forces announced the new agreement, which was signed Feb. 14 in Texas.
The U.S. military's Northern Command, however, publicized the agreement with a statement outlining how its top officer, Gen. Gene Renuart, and Canadian Lt.-Gen. Marc Dumais, head of Canada Command, signed the plan, which allows the military from one nation to support the armed forces of the other nation during a civil emergency.
American soldiers arrive on board the HMCS TORONTO as part of a training exercise in carrying out a NATO presence patrol in the Indian Ocean near Somalia. A new agreement between the U.S. and Canadian militaries has been greeted with suspicion by the left wing in Canada and the right wing in the U.S.
The new agreement has been greeted with suspicion by the left wing in Canada and the right wing in the U.S.
The left-leaning Council of Canadians, which is campaigning against what it calls the increasing integration of the U.S. and Canadian militaries, is raising concerns about the deal.
"It's kind of a trend when it comes to issues of Canada-U.S. relations and contentious issues like military integration. We see that this government is reluctant to disclose information to Canadians that is readily available on American and Mexican websites," said Stuart Trew, a researcher with the Council of Canadians.
Trew said there is potential for the agreement to militarize civilian responses to emergency incidents. He noted that work is also underway for the two nations to put in place a joint plan to protect common infrastructure such as roadways and oil pipelines.
"Are we going to see (U.S.) troops on our soil for minor potential threats to a pipeline or a road?" he asked.
Trew also noted the U.S. military does not allow its soldiers to operate under foreign command so there are questions about who controls American forces if they are requested for service in Canada. "We don't know the answers because the government doesn't want to even announce the plan," he said.
But Canada Command spokesman Commander David Scanlon said it will be up to civilian authorities in both countries on whether military assistance is requested or even used.
He said the agreement is "benign" and simply sets the stage for military-to-military co-operation if the governments approve.
"But there's no agreement to allow troops to come in," he said. "It facilitates planning and co-ordination between the two militaries. The 'allow' piece is entirely up to the two governments."
If U.S. forces were to come into Canada they would be under tactical control of the Canadian Forces but still under the command of the U.S. military, Scanlon added.
On right-wing blogs in the U.S. it is being used as evidence of a plan for a "North American union" where foreign troops, not bound by U.S. laws, could be used by the American federal government to override local authorities.
"Co-operative militaries on Home Soil!" notes one website. "The next time your town has a 'national emergency,' don't be surprised if Canadian soldiers respond. And remember - Canadian military aren't bound by posse comitatus."
Posse comitatus is a U.S. law that prohibits the use of federal troops from conducting law enforcement duties on domestic soil unless approved by Congress. |
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=403d90d6-7a61-41ac-8cef-902a1d14879d
Few things are more annoying that smug Canadians not applying the same criticism to their own country that they apply to the US. First, lose the home-team mentality, Sharkey. |
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Cornfed
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
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Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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I guess Blackwater will need all the help they can get stuffing people into debtors' concentration camps. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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sharkey wrote: |
the police state has concluded, now it is the military state.
one of the steps of fascism .. have fun guys |
Now I support the measure . . .
. . . just a little bit more. |
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Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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sharkey wrote: |
[T]he police state has concluded[.] [N]ow it is the military state.
[O]ne of the steps of fascism[...][H]ave fun guys. |
I fixed it. You write like Ddeubel, only without his flair and sophistication.
This is nonsense. America, especially not under the Obama Administration, is in no danger of becoming a fascist police state -- or "military state," whatever that means. (I also felt the same about the W. Bush Administration. But apparently I was alone on that one on this messageboard.)
I agree that a standing army within the United States represents a historical problem and many Americans, myself included, will look at this suspiciously. It will become a serious problem if it remains and/or grows, and this generation of children grow up believing it normal. I get this from Tacitus: after a generation or two, Romans forgot what it was like to live in a republic and accepted the Caesars as if they occurred naturally.
For the moment, however, I will grant the govt the benefit of the doubt. For one thing, we remain at war, and this war treats civilians pretty violently. So I will tentatively approve of the military's (temporary dammit!) presence. |
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sojourner1

Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Location: Where meggi swim and 2 wheeled tractors go sput put chug alugg pug pug
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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:28 am Post subject: |
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I agree with Gopher. America is in the position of becoming more laid back, cool, down to Earth, more modest, hard working, risk taking, and more truthful to the fact things are not as grandiose as we'd hoped. The country is also demanding that marijuana be legalized and when people get in trouble for other crimes, they be helped to pay their dues, not put on probation that renders them unemployable. The way it's been, one little white drug charge or anything showing up on a police record renders you practically unemployable for life which leads you to steal and give up on life since you're broke with your probation officers making threats of sending you to the pen if you don't get a job soon. Problem is no one is hiring those with a police record and those staying clean are having many employment and money problems now. I was so lucky to stay out of trouble while all my friends and so many people acquired police records while the police just preyed upon young adults. In small towns, especially in the North, it's a police state of oppression with little or no opportunity for young people. Needless to say, my rich friend go off scotfree of drug and DWI charges and now has his own business since his daddy took care of business for him.
With accepting our failures and the fact we're just human and we all make mistakes, I'd think we're going to start taking a more tolerance approach and not have a police that hunts and preys upon young people. I was a good kid they always had in their sights. Well, my thief brother didn't help to make things fair as they were counting on bagging me as a criminal. When I was 15, the juvenile PO trumped a phony charge on me saying I stole a $10 used bicycle, but my public defender negotiated for me to take a lie detector test so I took it and passed. I then told the PO officers at the exit how wrong they are in pursing me as I"m a good kid minding my own business and doing good in school. I only hope they stop this nonsense that's been going on. |
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bacasper

Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:47 am Post subject: |
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Cornfed wrote: |
I guess Blackwater will need all the help they can get stuffing people into debtors' concentration camps. |
Especially those who fail to pay alimony and child support  |
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moosehead

Joined: 05 May 2007
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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:57 am Post subject: |
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duh - how about they just bring home the National Guard and let them do what they are trained for - like helping victims of hurricanes, etc.? |
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sharkey

Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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moosehead wrote: |
duh - how about they just bring home the National Guard and let them do what they are trained for - like helping victims of hurricanes, etc.? |
and shooting and killing people in the streets of New Orleans , ah well |
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