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Korea subject markers!!! Help needed!

 
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afsjesse



Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Location: Kickin' it in 'Kato town.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:20 pm    Post subject: Korea subject markers!!! Help needed! Reply with quote

I have a question for you Korean language buffs...

I'm self studying and am confused about the subject markers.

My book say that 가 is used when ending in a vowel and that 이 is used for ending in a consonant.

So what is the basic rule for 는?

Example: 막씨가 미국 사람이예요. Mark is American.

What if I said 막씨는 ..... is there a difference? If so what is it and what is the general usage of this thing? The book doesn't say!
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bcbenjammin



Joined: 07 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'm still learning as well, so bear with me, but this is what my horrible book tells me
so -가 and -이 are called subject markers, whereas -는 and -은 are called topic markers

i know that doesn't really help much, but from what i understand, a topic must be definite, where as a subject can be indefinite

so if that makes sense, voila, but if not, i feel your pain, because i'm still struggling with it as well. i have noticed that when talking about specific things, there is a tendency to use 는 and 가 more for general things. but i suppose this statement may simply be redundant given the previous.
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crossmr



Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem is english doesn't really separate the topic and subject, and in many sentences they're the same damn thing.
English uses other words to put an emphasis on a topic... I think if you check on wikipedia there is a half-assed explanation that if you get really drunk you can understand.
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PeteJB



Joined: 06 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a comparative marker, aswell as a means of using emphasis in the introduction of a topic. 마크씨는~ Would indicate that Mark is American which is not the norm of the situation or that it introduces a new topic. 한국 사람입니까? 아니요, 저는 중국 사람입니다. Person A, B, C and D are Korean whereas Mark는 is American would be a way of using the comparative. 하늘은 밝다 - The sky is bright. Could be a comparative, but in this case just using that sentence could be a prologue title in a book.
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IncognitoHFX



Joined: 06 May 2007
Location: Yeongtong, Suwon

PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PeteJB wrote:
It's a comparative marker, aswell as a means of using emphasis in the introduction of a topic. 마크씨는~ Would indicate that Mark is American which is not the norm of the situation or that it introduces a new topic. 한국 사람입니까? 아니요, 저는 중국 사람입니다. Person A, B, C and D are Korean whereas Mark는 is American would be a way of using the comparative. 하늘은 밝다 - The sky is bright. Could be a comparative, but in this case just using that sentence could be a prologue title in a book.


I think it gets even more complicated than that. I've been studying Korean pretty intensively for about eight months, and I still have major problems with the comparative markers. I haven't been able to get a decent explanation once; not here, nor any of the textbooks I'm studying (though one textbook did say that "no one knows exactly what the rule is on 은/는, knowing when to use it is largely intuitive. Entire thesis papers have been written on this subject.")

It's possible that foreigners have the same kinds of trouble with this as Koreans have with English articles.

I keep seeing sentences that I do understand, using variations of 은/는 two or three times throughout the sentences. I do not understand the reasoning behind using three comparatives in a sentence yet I keep seeing these kinds of sentences. Just can't get my head around it.
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crossmr



Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are clear as mud:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topic_(linguistics)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topic_marker
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IncognitoHFX



Joined: 06 May 2007
Location: Yeongtong, Suwon

PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is off topic, but...

http://www.lsa.umich.edu/asian/korean/intermediate/index.htm

Here's a really great website for studying Korean. I'm having tremendous success with it. The first couple dialogues are extremely easy but they tend to get harder with time, and cover every grammatical point one would expect to find on numerous occasions.

There are tonnes of grammatical points. Good for med-high beginners.
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