Korean Job Discussion Forums

[bassexpander]

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2008/12/117_35646.html

[moosehead]

sounds like the Ministry is condoning this action - and why should they cooperate by forcing schools to list numbers of members - ? and if they do that do people really believe names aren't next?

ugly stuff. very McCarthyesqe

[njp6]

McCarthy would be proud.

[Donald Frost]

[bassexpander]

Why should the names be hidden?

I wouldn't call it McCarthyism by listing the names. I'd call it suspect by insisting that they be hidden.

What exactly is there to hide? Why is there a need to hide the names?

What I believe these teachers are doing is attempting to push controversial agendas without accountability for their actions. Accountability is important. Especially in the field of education.

[mountainous]

I know what it is, but for those who are not professors or newbs in Korea:

McCarthyism is a term describing the intense anti-communist suspicion in the United States in a period that lasted roughly from the late 1940s to the late 1950s. This period is also referred to as the Second Red Scare, and coincided with increased fears about communist influence on American institutions and espionage by Soviet agents. Originally coined to criticize the actions of U.S. Senator Joseph McCarthy, "McCarthyism" later took on a more general meaning, not necessarily referring to the conduct of Joseph McCarthy alone. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism

[wylies99]

This organization has troubling ties to North Korea and has used naive students to further an extreme political agenda. This has included forcing students to protest against the Korean president and actively encouraging young students to write essays against the South Korean and US governments while punishing those who refuse. This is NOT what a good teacher should be doing in a classroom.
Korean parents should be made aware of teachers who are members because the radical union members may try to use their children in such ways that would make parents very angry.
Are there Korean parents who would pull their kids out of certain schools because of this information-regarding the union affiliation of teachers? Probably yes, but only to protect their children.

[Gollywog]

The terms "conservative" and "liberal" seem to have different connotations in Korea, vs. the U.S., and elsewhere. It makes me feel uncomfortable seeing the newspapers labeling these groups with one word, as though Korea can be divided into two camps.

My impression, particularly from reading this article, is that "liberal" means anti-American, pro-China, but otherwise xenophobic, while "conservative" means reasonably cordial toward America, but generally not real friendly to other countries, especially Japan.

But I think there is something more fundamental going on, which the "conservative" group alludes to. I think there has been a substantial portion of the Korean public which has wished that China's invasion of Korea had been successful, and that America and the UN members that came to the defense of South Korea were and still are the bad guys.

If you talk to your teachers about Korean history, especially what they were taught and what is being taught to students today, I think you will find a very distorted view. All of the teachers I have talked to strongly dislike the United States, particularly their role in the Korean War. Yet none of them know even the basic facts. All they "know" is that America wanted to impose a military dictatorship in Korea, which lasted for more than three decades.

Why have such lies persisted, even among teachers, to this day? I suspect the Chinese have been influencing government officials and opinion leaders in Korea, through Koreans, though not directly, more likely through their North Korean relatives, etc. It would explain much of the bizarre, self-destructive behavior of South Korea, alienating their historical friends, which pushes them into the arms of China.

While this may sound like an echo of McCarthyism, I think that is a bad example. McCarthy was a demagogue, a liar and a drunk. The truth is there have been Communist spies in the U.S. and European countries over the past half century. The record shows this. But I don't think these people have had any significant influence on shaping public opinion. They mainly sold government secrets.

What this does show is that Communist countries do have well established skills for infiltrating other countries at high levels. In South Vietnam I would assume there were many North Vietnam sympathizers, if not spies, in the government and elsewhere.

I think the Chinese Communists never gave up their goal of taking over both halves of Korea. But that's just my reading of the tea leaves as an outsider. Koreans would have a better sense of this. But most would be too scared to speak out.

That the KTU is sympathetic to this anti-American agenda, and feels they can do whatever they want, is obvious. They were going to put anti-American beef banners on all school buildings. They really thought they could get away with it. It was in the papers. But somebody, to their surprise, said No.

Why do you think there were so many young children, your students, marching in those professionally organized anti-American nighttime protests? The students even thought they could take these protests into school. How many of you were taunted with "mad cow" heckling in class?

The teachers in Korea, even the intelligent ones, are mindless. They really seem to believe whatever the KTU tells them. Don't believe me? Cook something with American beef and offer it to the teachers at school. I'll bet not one of them puts even a single bite in their mouth. Even today, they still believe American beef will kill them, regardless of what they might say to your face.

Better yet, try saying pro-America things in class and watch your teacher's face, and the face of your students closely. Watch them glance at each other. A common tactic when something pro-American comes up seems to be for them to lay their heads on their desks and pretend to go to sleep en mass.

This is not to say every KTU teacher is anti-American. But most of them are conformists, and will do whatever the others do, and believe what the others do.

Sometimes I wonder whether South Korea is the most anti-American country in east Asia. They might smile to your face, but that doesn't tell the whole story.

[Unposter]

They are a legally recognized union. Therefore, they have certain rights. If these rights are being abused by this "conservative" group, I think the KTU has every right to take this group to court -let a judge decide.

The same thing is true with this "conservative" group. If they think the KTU is engaging in illegal activities than take the matter to the appropriate authorities. Let the legal system sort it out. Minimally, they are engaging in vigilante justice.

Why publish names? What have these individuals actually done? We don't know. Do you remember when that hakwon association printed a "black list" of English teachers and a Korean lawyer got involved because you cannot legally do that in Korea. This "conservative" organization is doing the same thing. Who is to say if even all these named people are really members of this organization? Meanwhile thier reputations are being sullied with little recourse because this conservative group is working outside the legal system.

I would say there are significant problems with what they are doing both moral and legal.

[Donald Frost]

[moosehead]

[moosehead]

[moosehead]

[moosehead]

as an American, I am more than acutely aware of the anti-Americanism expressed here in K; I've been targeted more than once and had many kinds of nasty things said to me about being an American.

however, I was brought up to honor and respect differing opinions and that no matter what, America would always stand to respect the individual's right to disagree whether or not we believed the other's opinion was right or not.

of course here in K it is different, however, there is a foreign military presence on the K people's soil. this cannot be denied. these people (the Ks) are still technically at war. this, too, cannot be denied. yet the K govt continues to behave as if everything is okey dokey and not a big deal, content to trade off a few visa waivers for a continued military presence of this same foreign govt. (no, I don't have proof but all the same, there's got to be some kind of deal brokering going on)

it seems to me that some of you would rather use the word "American" vs. "foreign" and somehow hope that would make everything ok. it doesn't. the U.S. military is here, and many people just don't like it. I don't blame them one bit and honestly, I don't like my tax dollars being spent this way. Furthermore, I could care less if the K people like or don't like American beef - I don't eat it either (any beef) and think the entire world would be better off not eating beef at all. so again, these arguments are pointless.

you Americans might ask yourself - if these troops were, say, from Australia, or Lithuania, or Sweden, or Brazil, or Egypt - would it be any different? would you still feel so strongly about it? chances are you might be a bit more empathetic.

realistically speaking, I can't imagine what it must be like for Ks to have foreign troops occupying their country - and non-K speaking at that! for this alone, they will always have my support, absolutely and non-equivocably.

[samcheokguy]

Don't the military bases in Germany date from the US occupation? Germans don't hate the US do they?