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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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 Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:37 am Post subject: terrorists target scientist and his family |
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| Animal rights activists suspected in fire |
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SANTA CRUZ, Calif., Aug. 3 (UPI) -- Police say they are investigating a weekend firebomb attack on the home of a California scientist who had rankled animal rights activists.
Medianews reported Sunday that the predawn bombing Saturday forced the family to evacuate their Santa Cruz home via an escape ladder and was being investigated as a possible attempted homicide.
The apparent target was David Feldheim, a neuroscientist at the University of California-Santa Cruz who was on a list of researchers in what Medianews called a threatening animal-rights pamphlet left at a coffee shop last week.
Medianews said some injuries resulted from the hasty escape, and police considered the attack an attempted murder since people were in the house when the fire was started.
The incident was one of two firebombings Saturday involving university faculty. A car belonging to another scientist was bombed in the victim's driveway. The person was not among the names and addresses on the pamphlet.
Police later Saturday raided a home occupied by several students and confiscated a computer hard drive. No one was arrested; however, Medianews said the occupants remained persons of interest in the investigation. |
Firebombing the house with his family still in it.. The ALF? |
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nateium
Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Somebody remind me...Why do some people believe cute furry brainless creatures are more important than scientists and human health? |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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Another article, including a couple pictures
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The devices used in two firebombings targeting UC Santa Cruz biologists are similar to some used in the past by animal rights activists, investigators said Sunday.
The bombs were so powerful they were like "Molotov cocktails on steroids," said Santa Cruz police Capt. Steve Clark. |
Nuts for every cause. |
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merkurix
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Location: Not far from the deep end.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: terrorists target scientist and his family |
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| mises wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Animal rights activists suspected in fire |
| Quote: |
SANTA CRUZ, Calif., Aug. 3 (UPI) -- Police say they are investigating a weekend firebomb attack on the home of a California scientist who had rankled animal rights activists.
Medianews reported Sunday that the predawn bombing Saturday forced the family to evacuate their Santa Cruz home via an escape ladder and was being investigated as a possible attempted homicide.
The apparent target was David Feldheim, a neuroscientist at the University of California-Santa Cruz who was on a list of researchers in what Medianews called a threatening animal-rights pamphlet left at a coffee shop last week.
Medianews said some injuries resulted from the hasty escape, and police considered the attack an attempted murder since people were in the house when the fire was started.
The incident was one of two firebombings Saturday involving university faculty. A car belonging to another scientist was bombed in the victim's driveway. The person was not among the names and addresses on the pamphlet.
Police later Saturday raided a home occupied by several students and confiscated a computer hard drive. No one was arrested; however, Medianews said the occupants remained persons of interest in the investigation. |
Firebombing the house with his family still in it.. The ALF? |
Santa Cruz? Doesn't surprise me one bit. I met one-too-many far-left nutters there. Far-far-far-left. Nutters. |
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merkurix
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Location: Not far from the deep end.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| nateium wrote: |
| Somebody remind me...Why do some people believe cute furry brainless creatures are more important than scientists and human health? |
Because too many Santa Cruz hippie morons have really gone off the deep end. I lived there for almost five years. I have nothing but contempt for those idjets.
The Santa Cruz townspeople are normal. Even the homegrown hippies are relatively normal a lot of the time. It is the UCSC student pseudo-hippie retards who boast about traveling to Tibet with the remainder of their trust fund who are a problem.
I don't have nothing against hippies. I have a problem with "hippies" whose daddies are Silicon Valley CEOs with a Menlo Park / Atherton mansion and who are using all of their trust fund money to feed their pot addiction and to purchase extremely ugly clothing. Nothing sadder than watching very successful products of capitalistic upbringing, and yet they want to "fight the power" that put a silver spoon in their mouths in the first place. In hindsight it's quite amusing really. |
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Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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If the news report is accurate, it's not an ALF action, because setting a fire when the family was home would definitely violate the ALF guideline to take all possible precautions to avoid endangering lives. However, as the administrator of another message board correctly pointed out during a recent discussion of this same case, the media may not have all the facts. (No, that�s not a direct quote, but it was something along those lines.) As outsiders, we really don't know what happened and should avoid rushing to judgment when articles like this come out.
I don't support endangering lives, but I'd support almost anything short of that to save animals from institutionalized violence. (But I've never been to Santa Cruz and don't have a trust fund, so I may be off topic in this thread.  ) |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| So firebombing a car w/no passengers=ok? |
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Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Not if there's any danger of the fire spreading or harming insects or other animals, no. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| Oh yes, the old fire-bombing empty homes is OK if done for a good cause defense. |
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yawarakaijin
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:15 am Post subject: |
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| Bramble wrote: |
| Not if there's any danger of the fire spreading or harming insects or other animals, no. |
You have GOT to be kidding! Harming insects? LOL
Well then my friend, I doubt they could do ANYTHING could they. LOL
"Ok, ok, Sue. The family is out of the house."
"Have we checked to make sure that there aren't any insects in the house?"
"Well, that banister doesn't look too solid."
"Damn you termites! Damn you to heeeeeeeeeeeeell!" |
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merkurix
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Location: Not far from the deep end.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:38 am Post subject: |
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| Bramble wrote: |
| Not if there's any danger of the fire spreading or harming insects or other animals, no. |
Nothing wrong with shoving militant agenda down people's throats violently, eh? People were indeed hurt; oh but wait . . . as long as it was not animals or even . . . .  insects that were harmed it's okay right? Lord, I hope you are really not serious.
And with your minuscule aside you posted earlier, it sounds like you take my dislike of that particular brand of pseudo-hippies personally . . . trying to tell me something?
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merkurix
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Location: Not far from the deep end.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:52 am Post subject: |
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| Bramble wrote: |
| If the news report is accurate, it's not an ALF action, because setting a fire when the family was home would definitely violate the ALF guideline to take all possible precautions to avoid endangering lives. |
Ridiculous. They have no guidelines to protect human life. They violate their own code then. This wouldn't be the first time:
From Wikipedia:
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Monaghan writes that, around 1982, there was a noticeable shift in the non-violent position, and not one approved by everyone in the movement. Some activists began to make personal threats against individuals, followed by letter bombs and threats to contaminate food, the latter representing yet another shift to threatening the general public, rather than specific targets.[17]
In 1982, letter bombs were sent to all four major party leaders, including the prime minister, Margaret Thatcher. In November 1984, the first major food scare was carried out, with the ALF claiming in phone calls and letters to the media that it had contaminated Mars Bars � part of a campaign to force the Mars company to stop conducting tooth decay tests on monkeys.[50] On November 17, the Sunday Mirror received a call from the ALF saying it had injected Mars Bars in stores throughout the country with rat poison. The call was followed by a letter containing a Mars Bar, presumed to be contaminated, and the claim that these were on sale in London, Leeds, York, Southampton, and Coventry. Millions of bars were removed from shelves and Mars halted production, at a cost to the company of $4.5 million.[51][52] The ALF admitted the claims had been a hoax. Similar contamination claims were later made against L'Oreal and Lucozade.[53] |
Damn hypocrites. Oh wait, here's more:
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Steven Best has coined the term "extensional self-defense" to describe actions carried out in defense of animals by human beings acting as "proxy agents."[94] He argues that, in carrying out acts of extensional self-defense, activists have the moral right to engage in acts of sabotage or even violence.[94] Extensional self-defense is justified, he writes, because animals are "so vulnerable and oppressed they cannot fight back to attack or kill their oppressors."[95]
Best argues that the principle of extensional self defense mirrors the penal code statues known as the "necessity defense," which can be invoked when a defendant believes that the illegal act was necessary to avoid imminent and great harm.[95] In testimony to the Senate in 2005, Jerry Vlasak stated that he regarded violence against Huntingdon Life Sciences as an example of extensional self-defense |
And here is something a little more recent:
Doesn't seem like these guys believe in 'peaceful non-violent' mean of resistance eh? All life is sacred . . . . but animal life is even more sacred than human life. Hypocrites. There's a reason they are labeled terrorists, whereas PeTA is not.
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| In June 2006, the ALF claimed responsibility for a firebomb attack on UCLA researcher Lynn Fairbanks. The Animal Liberation Press Office issued a statement saying that Fairbanks was conducting "painful addiction experiments" on monkeys,[89]. Fairbanks stated that she studies primate behavior and does not do invasive research.[90] A firebomb was placed on the doorstep of a house occupied by Fairbanks' 70 year-old neighbor and a tenant; according to the FBI, the device was lit, and was powerful enough to have killed the occupants, but it failed to ignite. The attack was credited by the acting chancellor of UCLA as helping to shape the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act, a bill before the U.S. Congress to give law enforcement officials more power when dealing with animal rights activism.[91] ALF spokesman Jerry Vlasak said of the attack on Fairbanks: "force is a poor second choice, but if that's the only thing that will work ... there's certainly moral justification for that."[92] In July 2008 Vlasak said that he said he is not encouraging anyone to commit murder, but "if you had to hurt somebody or intimidate them or kill them, it would be morally justifiable. |
People off the deep end. No sympathy. They probably have the right idea, but not the right methods. |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:45 am Post subject: |
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| Bramble wrote: |
If the news report is accurate, it's not an ALF action, because setting a fire when the family was home would definitely violate the ALF guideline to take all possible precautions to avoid endangering lives. However, as the administrator of another message board correctly pointed out during a recent discussion of this same case, the media may not have all the facts. (No, that�s not a direct quote, but it was something along those lines.) As outsiders, we really don't know what happened and should avoid rushing to judgment when articles like this come out.
I don't support endangering lives, but I'd support almost anything short of that to save animals from institutionalized violence. (But I've never been to Santa Cruz and don't have a trust fund, so I may be off topic in this thread. ) |
I have a few questions here.
1 would firebombing the house without people in it, been ok?
2 can you be specific of the kind of actions you would support? you said anything short of endangering a life? could you go into more detail?
3 also could you show how these actions are going to stop 'institutionalized violence' against animals? |
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Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| Bramble wrote: |
| Not if there's any danger of the fire spreading or harming insects or other animals, no. |
Insects? You people fret about insects?
Anyways, publicly posted propaganda from a terrorist organization about how they won't harm insects is hardly evidence that those quacks did not do this.
But you know what is evidence, Bramble?
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Santa Cruz city officials announced a $30,000 reward Monday for information leading to the arrest of those responsible for two firebombings targeting University of California, Santa Cruz scientists.
The weekend incidents were the latest in a string of attacks against researchers who experiment on animals.
A spokesman for the animal rights activist group ALF, or Animal Liberation Front, claimed responsibility Monday for the attacks, which he said were the consequences of performing research on animals.
"We understand what they're doing and we predict there will be more of it as long as people continue to hurt animals,'' said Dr. Jerry Vlasak of the North American Animal Liberation Press Office. |
http://cbs5.com/crime/santa.cruz.firebombings.2.787415.html
So, Bramble, now that your heroes have claimed responsibility for attempted multiple homicide (including innocent women and children) I assume you will now stop defending them. Right? |
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