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Massive Fraud arrest

 
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pkang0202



Joined: 09 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:56 pm    Post subject: Massive Fraud arrest Reply with quote

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/12/business/12scheme.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&em

Quote:
Bernard L. Madoff, was arrested at his Manhattan home by federal agents who accused him of running a multibillion-dollar fraud scheme � perhaps the largest in Wall Street�s history.


Quote:
Mr. Madoff invited the two executives to his Manhattan apartment that evening. When they joined him there, he told them that his money-management business was �all just one big lie� and �basically, a giant Ponzi scheme.�

The senior employees understood him to be saying that he had for years been paying returns to certain investors out of the cash received from other investors.




How the HELL do you hide this in the accouting books? There is NO WAY Madoff was still handling the books after 30+ years.

I find it extremely hard to believe that the accountants and fiancial analysts WITHIN the firm had no idea that mone coming in was going straight out.
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Tiger Beer



Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From my understanding, A LOT of people knew exactly what was going on. It seems like everyone and their brother and sister knew the entire housing scam was insustainable. They knew Americans couldn't continue to buy more and more housing and more at higher and higher inflated prices.

I think the real reason the government didn't stop it, and actually encouraged it - I recall many times Bush encouraging Greenspan and the Federal Reserve to keep interest rates to 'stimulate the economy' with that idea that 'every American should be able to invest in a home', particularly as housing prices kept going out of reach of more and more Americans. It also added to numbers that made the economy look like it was just fine despite massive military spending and massive borrowing and debt.

In reality, the economy looked kinda okay as it was running on an overinflated housing market. It gave false illusions that the economy wasn't nearly as unhealthy as it seemed and looked. So while the Administration and others who had the power to stop such a large scam, decided to 'ignore it', as perhaps no one would notice, or it might work itself out in some way or another according to 'free market' principles.

But...that didn't quite happen that way. There was also STRONG 'free market' talk going on, in that pretty much anything that goes on, should happen, as that is just free market. An anti-regulation streak runs high within the Republican Party and it's supporters, making it ripe for exploitation unfortunately as well.
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tiger Beer wrote:
I think the real reason the government didn't stop it, and actually encouraged it - I recall many times Bush encouraging Greenspan and the Federal Reserve to keep interest rates to 'stimulate the economy' with that idea that 'every American should be able to invest in a home', particularly as housing prices kept going out of reach of more and more Americans.


Without mortgage equity withdrawals, there is no way George Bush would have been re-elected"- John Mauldin, president of Millennium Wave Advisors, December 2008

The perception of a growing economy had to be created. The economy has not grown in any meaningful sense since 2000.
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canuckistan
Mod Team
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Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The danger signs of Madoff-style ponzi schemes:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/6167085.html

The most telling being the consistently incredible rates of return.

No one beats the market like that.

10-11% averaged over 5 years is considered to be good investing. Key word: averaged.

Anything more with no significant downs over 5 years (despite downward market movement) should raise flags. Common sense questions about Madoff's "incredible" returns were cast aside by greed.

As mentioned in the article...Ponzi schemes don't like decreased returns lest they provoke investors to cash out and the jig is suddenly up.
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RJjr



Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A $50,000,000,000.00 pyramid scheme? If that's not "too big too fail" then I don't know what is. Bush, Congress, Paulson, and Bernanke need to call an emergency session and bail out Madoff with our tax dollars! A Madoff bailout would cost us only twice as much as the proposed auto bailout!
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is just the start.
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