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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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 Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:52 pm Post subject: Darth Cheney Beckons Obama to the Dark Side |
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Cheney Beckons Obama to the Dark Side
By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Tuesday, December 16, 2008; 1:15 PM
Vice President Cheney revels in his "Darth Vader" nickname, frequently joking that his wife says it humanizes him.
Yesterday, in two interviews, Cheney encouraged President-Elect Obama to come to the dark side.
After acknowledging his role in approving the waterboarding of detainees, Cheney urged Obama in an ABC News interview to reconsider his "campaign rhetoric" and instead "retain the tools that have been so essential in defending the nation for the last seven and a half years."
He also said the prison at Guantanamo Bay should stay open as long as there is a war on terror -- which, since there will always be terror, could mean forever.
In a second interview, with right-wing radio host Rush Limbaugh, Cheney boasted of having strengthened executive branch powers and made a prediction: "I think the Obama administration is not likely to cede that authority back to the Congress. I think they'll find that given a challenge they face, they'll need all the authority they can muster. . . .
"[M]y guess is that once they get here and they're faced with the same problems we deal with every day," Cheney said, "they will appreciate some of the things we've put in place."
Maybe you expected some regrets? Dream on.
"Regrets?" asked ABC's Jonathan Karl.
"Oh, not a lot, at this stage," Cheney replied. "I think I'll have a chance to reflect on that after I get out of here and see whether or not anything immediately comes to mind. I think given the circumstances we've had to deal with, I think we've done pretty well."
Cheney didn't even share his boss's arguably insincere regret that the pre-war intelligence about Saddam Hussein's possession of weapons of mass destruction was flawed.
Unlike his boss, Cheney bluntly acknowledged that the president would have taken the country to war anyway.
Cheney's Defense of Torture
From the transcript:
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Q. "But you've heard leaders, the incoming Congress saying that this policy has basically been torture and illegal wiretapping, and that they want to undo basically the central tenets of your anti-terrorist policy."
Cheney: "They're wrong. On the question of terrorist surveillance, this was always a policy to intercept communications between terrorists, or known terrorists, or so-called 'dirty numbers,' and folks inside the United States, to capture those international communications. It's worked. It's been successful. It's now embodied in the FISA statute that we passed last year, and that Barack Obama voted for, which I think was a good decision on his part. It's a very, very important capability. It is legal. It was legal from the very beginning. It is constitutional, and to claim that it isn't I think is just wrong.
"On the question of so-called 'torture,' we don't do torture, we never have. It's not something that this administration subscribes to. Again, we proceeded very cautiously; we checked, we had the Justice Department issue the requisite opinions in order to know where the bright lines were that you could not cross. The professionals involved in that program were very, very cautious, very careful, wouldn't do anything without making certain it was authorized and that it was legal. And any suggestion to the contrary is just wrong.
"Did it produce the desired results? I think it did. I think, for example, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who was the number three man in al Qaeda, the man who planned the attacks of 9/11, provided us with a wealth of information. There was a period of time there, three or fours years ago, when about half of everything we knew about al Qaeda came from that one source.
"So it's been a remarkably successful effort. I think the results speak for themselves. And I think those who allege that we've been involved in torture, or that somehow we violated the Constitution or laws with the Terrorist Surveillance Program, simply don't know what they're talking about."
Q. "Did you authorize the tactics that were used against Khalid Sheikh Mohammed?"
Cheney: "I was aware of the program certainly, and involved in helping get the process cleared, as the agency, in effect, came in and wanted to know what they could and couldn't do. And they talked to me, as well as others, to explain what they wanted to do, and I supported it."
Q. "In hindsight, do you think any of those tactics that were used against Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and others went too far?"
Cheney: "I don't." |
There's so much wrong here, it's hard to know where to begin. First of all, waterboarding is almost universally considered torture. It's basically drowning -- and it's been a staple of torturers since the Spanish Inquisition. Second, neither Cheney nor anyone else has provided evidence that torture or illegal surveillance elicited information that saved American lives, or that it couldn't have been elicited otherwise.
And as Andrew Sullivan blogs for Atlantic, Cheney's description of his role "is an absolute lie," as proven by last week's bipartisan Senate report.
Among other things, that report chronicled how the White House's role -- and particularly that of top Cheney advisor David S. Addington -- was less reactive than proactive.
Sullivan also notes: "Cheney's open, proud defense of a torture technique, waterboarding, that has always and everywhere been understood as torture means he stands vulnerable to war crime prosecutions. Until he is tried, convicted and jailed, the rule of law in this country stands fatally compromised."
more at link |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Darth Vader references for evil characters haven't worked since 2005 when it was shown that even during his time as Vader, Anakin believed himself to be still fighting for a greater good. With his disfigured body he wasn't capable of taking down the Emperor himself and was always looking for a way to take him down eventually, which is why he spent so much time looking for Luke after he found out he was alive. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| ^I hope you email that info to Froomkin. |
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VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:03 am Post subject: |
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Cheney is evil
(and I didn't even use that word before nor believe its ontological history, but there's no other word that quite describes him so well) |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| Darth Vader references for evil characters haven't worked since 2005 when it was shown that even during his time as Vader, Anakin believed himself to be still fighting for a greater good. With his disfigured body he wasn't capable of taking down the Emperor himself and was always looking for a way to take him down eventually, which is why he spent so much time looking for Luke after he found out he was alive. |
Refutation ad nerdium.
Very nice. |
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Paji eh Wong
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Darth Vader references for evil characters haven't worked since 2005 when it was shown that even during his time as Vader, Anakin believed himself to be still fighting for a greater good. |
Everyone believes they are doing the greater good. Even Cheney.
People have an amazing capacity to rationalize their self interest. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| mithridates wrote: |
| Darth Vader references for evil characters haven't worked since 2005 when it was shown that even during his time as Vader, Anakin believed himself to be still fighting for a greater good. With his disfigured body he wasn't capable of taking down the Emperor himself and was always looking for a way to take him down eventually, which is why he spent so much time looking for Luke after he found out he was alive. |
Refutation ad nerdium.
Very nice. |
Haha - great latin! |
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Beeyee
Joined: 29 May 2007
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| They are cousins afterall. |
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moosehead
Joined: 05 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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I recall reading what a defense attorney once said about how even serial killers sometimes fail to acknowledge to themselves their crimes, even when the evidence is unbelievably against them; they will continue to claim innocence and only after the door slams behind them in prison do they often break down when they realize what's happened and where it's landed them.
living in denial is a necessary defense mechanism - how else could the zebra, antelope, deer go on with their lives after their brethren were taken down and eaten right in front of them?
however, humanity can only progress forward as a just society when people step out of denial and acknowledge its mistakes, accepts responsibility and tries to make a more just and fair life for everyone. people in power who deny their own participation in war crimes, or that those crimes even occurred aren't just evil; they are psychologically weak and morally corrupt.
there was a time when I would look forward to real war crime trials for the Bush admin. after reading this I still do; however, for Cheney it's almost like a bullet in the back of the head would be preferable to his being allowed to continue to speak in a public forum such utter contemptable nonsense.
IMO, he is worse than a traitor to the U.S. and our constitution, he is a despicable, pus-filled boil which needs to be lanced. he is scum.
it will take years, if ever, to repair the kind of damage wrought by the Bush admin; what they've done to Iraq can never be repaired, tho, and the money wasted cannot be reclaimed.
it would suit me just fine if someone managed to sue Cheney and company personally and forced him to pay monetary damages for his ill conceived grasp of power - don't expect it to happen but it should, nonetheless.
what a pathetic excuse for a human being, absolutely pathetic.  |
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