Korean Job Discussion Forums

[danseonsaeng]

Guys and gals,

Let's start with this -
I'd like to teach; I'd like to teach at a university in Korea; I'd like to secure a tenure track position with a reputable (respected, respectable) university in Korea.

I need to know which sort of MA/MEd/PhD will serve me best in this environment. Here are the grad program options I've found:

1) MEd Curriculum and Instruction (Secondary Education) - leads to state teaching certification
2) MTESOL
3) MEd Curriculum and Instruction (English as a Second Language)

The school I'm looking into also offers an Applied Linguistics PhD and an English Education PhD. It seems to me that I could apply directly to one of the PhD programs, but I was under the (perhaps ignorant) impression that I needed an MA in order to pursue a PhD. Is that not the case? Just so you know - I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, so feel free to 'correct' anything I'm thinking or expressing (be nice, though).

Essentially, I want flexibility (options) in the event that things turn sour and I've gotta return to the States for work. I'd also like respect, stability and legitimacy in Korea. I just don't know where to start.

Thoughts? Thanks very much.

[dean_burrito]

I personally think your option one would open more doors for you. You'd be able to teach at home or in Korea. Also you would be qualified to teach at international schools or for the DOD if you are American.
The other two degrees might put a little more money in your pocket while you are in Korea but not necessarily back home.

[danseonsaeng]

Thanks for the response.

I hear what you're saying as far as leaving options open, but it seems that most colleges in Korea/China/Japan really prefer Applied Linguistics or the MTESOL.

Plus, how applicable would a degree in secondary education be if i intend to teach at the university level?

Let me know your thoughts.

[aarontendo]

I've yet to see a university ad that mentioned an app. ling. masters over a masters in tesol.

Having said that, from what I know the chances of landing a tenure job are pretty much 0% with a Masters. You're going to hit that same wall that a lotta foreigners hit, 3 or 4 years at a school the get the boot. Gotta keep that meat fresh after all.

You're going to want to shoot or a PhD if you want those gigs. You'd be best holding out for an answer from PRagic, I don't know many PhD holders on here and he seems the most likely to help ya out with this question.

[danseonsaeng]

Thanks very much for the response.

Can anyone else chime in?

[Trevor]

I have a master's in English lit from a middle-of-the-road school and I make more than most of the foreign Ph.D's here in Korea. I work a lot less, too. My secret? I was in the right place at the right time and I was willing to relocate to a rural area.

Tenure? Yes, if tenure is important to you, you need a Ph.D. How many years is it going to take you before you get tired of your uni and you feel like a change, anyway? To my mind, it's not worth it when you can make lateral moves easily. If you are passionate enough about the subject then by all means get a Ph.D. -- NOT because it is going to significantly improve your job prospects.

The sweet spot is an M.A. in TESOL. You'll be able to pick your job and move when and where you want without having to publish some dreary long-winded paper every six months that nobody is going to read.

[bassexpander]

If you plan on doing this forever, and want to get tenure, you'd want the MA that can more easily be used as as stepping-stone to a Ph.D.

If you can do it, try option 1.

I am option 3, as I have zero interest in a Ph.D. in this field. Option 1 may also require you to take an entrance test (GMAT) to get into your program. I chose option 3 because I didn't want to bother with that mess at my age. I still had to go through some hoops to get accepted into my program, though.

[Jimskins]

I've got an MA TESOL and from what I've seen and heard that is enough to get you reasonable Uni gigs in Korea, if you wanted to work in Japan you definitely need a PHD (or know someone high up).

It depends on what you want to do. I intend to (hopefully) make a career out of EFL teaching in Korea and an MA TESOL is a solid basis for that (I may do a PHD but not for a few years). But it's quite a niche degree. As a previous poster said, the other two would be better if you're thinking of working at home in the future.

[aarontendo]

Well in all fairness option 2 and 3 are pretty similiar. Option 1 is very different entirely. Get ready to do GRE's and Praxis exams for that one. Also, what area is Option 1? I don't think Secondary education is a degree, you'd have to pick a focus such as English, Social Studies, etc. (I'm assuming English for ya). For those programs, you gotta have X number of credits in the area you want to teach in. TESOL masters you can jump into cold without any previous coursework.

I mean I'm doing a M.Ed TESOL at the moment, I don't know if you'd consider that 2 or 3 heh. It doesn't lead to state certification, unfortunately.

[danseonsaeng]

the question remains - how relevant is option 1 if i intend to work in the university world? will i be able to find work?

thanks for the responses; they've all been helpful.

[PRagic]

My advice would be to apply directly into a Ph.D. program. You'll have to knock out the MA first, but you'll also skinny up the funding pole a bit faster, too, and won't have to go through the hastle of reapplying later. You can always bail after the MA; many do.

Choose the program in which you have an interest. If you do the Ph.D., things will take care of themselves. Get started. The only regret most have is that they didn't finish up their degree sooner.

For tenure, yes, you need the Ph.D. It does have its benefits, although you can, as another poster added, skip from job to job. That is a viable option in Korea over the short term, but not over the long haul. It never looks good to bounce around too much, and the assumption will be that you moved because you didn't make a promotion, or you were denied tenure (this will be the case more and more the older you get).

The upside? Consistent salary increases and promotion-associated pay raises. This can really add up, especially if you are working somewhere that gives severance (calcultate at your last three months' salary levels)! You also enjoy more access to funding and have more say in shaping a departmental program.

To each their own. I like working tenure track now, although it is a lot of work. Down the road? Who knows? But it's nice to have the flexibility.

[Trevor]

Will an administrator assume you have been denied promotion or tenure if you skip around too much? My experience is that most department heads know that foreigners are rarely offered tenure (at least MA's) and do not think badly of an applicant if they stay at least two years at a position and then move on. As for MATESOL's, department heads usually grab them up faster than the free bulgogi samples at Costco.

Look, with all due respect, a Ph.D. is a truly admirable thing to have, but you have to do it out of a passion for the subject, not because it's going to put you a step ahead of the next palooka. There's plenty of room for all of us and, dollar for dollar, I hold that the MA is the most cost effective when considering the time and effort it takes for each. Remember there's something called 'opportunity cost' as well. If you spend the time and effort on a Ph.D., you give up whatever you would have pursued otherwise. All factors must be weighed. Those guys spend A LOT more time at the office than I do. I put in my sixteen hours a week and go play my guitar

[PRagic]

Excellent points, and pretty much on the money. However, over the long run, and especially if you want to stay in education at the university level, the Ph.D. more than pays for itself. Opportunity costs? Figure 4-6 semesters of classes. You can work during the breaks and any decent doctoral program should be funding its students (usually right from the beginning, or at least from the second or third semester).

No, if you have just the MA, 'skipping around' is build into the system in Korea now. MAs don't get tenure, and an increasing majoring of universities are enforcing term limits; people have to jump around. It is true that for most of the university teaching jobs in ESL, the MATESOL is a great degree to have.

For Ph.D. holders, though, most if not all of the major schools here are now offering tenure-track jobs. Thing is, nobody has been in a slot long enough yet to see if full tenure is actually made available! So moving around a lot over the course of 4-5 years can look a bit odd, especially if one had a tenure track job to begin with.

Now, one could just take visitorships, usually for three years, and then pack up and move shop. No worries. But even over the short run, this hurts your income and career potential. Many places will lock you in at one salary for the duration of the visiting professorship, and then you'll be back to ground zero again when you move. It all depends on what wants, though. You teach more contact hours on visiting status, and now many schools here still want you to publish in decent SSCI rated journals (a process that can run one to two years from when you submit!).

Time in the office? It depends. With only 6 contact hours, I can spend as much or as little time as I need to in the office. Once lectures are prepped and a class has been made, though, it's smooth sailing. Some people do their reading and research over the winter/summer breaks. I do a lot of writing, for example, over the winter/summer breaks, and then clean up my work and submit during the semester. This spreads my work load out and keeps publications in the pipeline. There are a ton of extra things that go into this type of work, such as what to research and when, journal submission strategies, grant/funding administration, but in the long run, it's a job and these are part of the learning curve.

Good on the OP for asking in advance. A lot of people think that once a Ph.D. is completed that it's a job seekers world and places will love to hire and promote you. Wrong. Finishing the degree is step one, nothing more, and THEN it gets competitive. Also, once you get a job, you'll be under pressure to publish and usually to create new classes. You'll be busy, but it can be rewarding. Be realistic about your initial potential, though. Post docs are OK, but they are basically low paying opportunities to get your dissertation cut up and published, and to get a class or two of teaching under your belt. Rarely will a new Ph.D. get to teach what they want where they want when they want.

Having said all this, once you have the degree, nobody can every take it away from you. If for any reason you want to go back into straight ESL teaching, you can, and practically any Ph.D. will trump even the MATESOL because they want to student/faculty ratio up as high as possible. So if you like what you're studying, go for it. It all works out in the end.

[Thiuda]

I'd add that currently there are more MAs with experience and F2/F5 visas on the market than there have ever been before. Simply being experienced with an MA in hand is no longer enough to secure the really good jobs. A PhD is one way to stay one step ahead of the pack. For those of us here for the long term, because of family or other commitments, a PhD makes sense, because it offers the key to more job security and a higher income potential.

[Chet Wautlands]

Really interesting thread. Thanks for the information.

Is an MA TESOL a dead end? Can one eventually get a Ph.D if their MA is in TESOL?