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PeterDragon
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:09 am Post subject: dasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdas |
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dasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdas
Last edited by PeterDragon on Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:07 am Post subject: Re: To everyone who told me I'd be better off in Japan: |
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In this case, it's not racism because it also targets people who are ethnically Japanese but not native born. So, even if you look Japanese, and you are of Japanese decent you are dealing with that. If you're a Western teacher and working a gig you generally are dealing with a different situation and better labor practices. Japanese has plenty of prejudice. It's not the land of paradise, and it has long discriminated against Koreans as well, but, generally, English teachers seemed to have fared better there. That's what my friend tells me, at least. He used to work in Korea. He got shafted twice in Korea and has never been shafted in Japan. We're better off, in the end, if we can find a good job in our home countries, IMHO. You can have a great situation as a teacher in both places. |
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The Gipkik
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:21 am Post subject: |
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Absolutely. Having lived in Japan for almost 5 years, there is no doubt in my mind that they can be, as a generalization, more neurotic, xenophobic and superior minded. It's just that they are so polite about it that they can fool the more naive into believing that it's just not there. In Japan, the effect was more insidious. In Korea, the little that I've seen, which isn't much actually (comparatively speaking) is, quite frankly, pretty normal. If I was born in a country where everyone spoke the same language, looked similar, shared the same culture and world view, I would probably think my native kith and kin were superior too.
Most Koreans haven't been exposed to multicultural values. They haven't grown up with, haven't worked with, or had to tolerate people who not only look different, but believe in a different god and speak a different language. They aren't exposed to proclamations and advertisements of tolerance and assimilation like many westerners. On top of that, as English speakers, we are exposed to a much larger population of individuals from radically different countries and cultures (Pakistan and Singapore come to mind), so we hear a huge diversity of opinion. Of course we should be more tolerant. Of course Koreans shouldn't be nearly as tolerant or informed. A lot of what they hear passes through the filter of their language and those that write about ideas and globalization have a slant that has more to do with economic well-being than egalitarian principles. |
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Robot_Teacher
Joined: 18 Feb 2009 Location: Robotting Around the World
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:39 am Post subject: |
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I don't see Koreans as being real xenophobic as I do being shy and fearing of me. Many seem antisocial or come off as xeno due to not knowing English or lacking confidence in speaking what they know. As with everywhere in the world, some don't like YOU, but most are neutral, respectful with some liking YOU. They're many shy Koreans afraid of what I'll think of their English and image. I haven't felt they think of themselves as superior to me either like previous post states about the elite Japanese. If anything, many Koreans think the Westerner is superior due to technology, ideas, and English. I garner quite a bit of respect from many, but it's awkward as I just want them to relax and speak whatever English they can or just interact with me when I approach them as I'm not out to judge them nor should it matter to them what I think.
Korea's growing. I think it's a good investment to take a job, learn the language, and try to understand it as it looks like it's going somewhere upward. I'm seeing new businesses and many other infrastructure development of all types in full swing. Got a nice new shiny Paris Baguette a few weeks ago and then a big Home Plus store is under construction in Gangnueng. New roads and railways are being built. My neighbor building is a small business that has been doing nothing, but investing, developing the property, and showing signs of more activity. Some sort of widget place with Chinese writing as the name of the business. Not sure what all they got, but many bongo trucks are visiting with work men.
While Japan may be a powerhouse 3X larger than Korea, richer, and more high tech, it's too expensive to be competitive in a serious global economic downturn. Korea has it's flaws too such as import tariffs and other artificial economic protections, but is still winning on it's hard work producing tangible hardware products. Because Japan is too expensive, they have to outsource to China and eying Africa as the next frontier. Well, Korea and China are too in their opportunity seeking aspirations, but Japan is more exposed to the risks of global economic troubles. I've no citations on this claim, but read it, heard, and think it. Japan is too expensive to live in or travel frequently in unless you're a high paid professional. It's OK to dip in for a few days for a peek which I want to do just see what it's really like on the surface.
I see Korea as a developing country still developing with no intentions of slowing down. They operate in a vacuum economically speaking and are isolated as the moon so they're exempt from immediate world economic happenings, but if the world did stop buying Korean export products, then Korea would fall on hard times. That's highly unlikely as they make kickass electronics, practical efficient mechanically sound cars, and many widgets from A to Z. Even a new type of bullet train is under development in a city called, "Changwon," and robotics is big in Korea too. Even android types are in development. Korea is so highly diversified in it's conglomerate industries making it recession proof. I've got LG antibiotic pills, LG phone, and LG monitor and LG servo motors installed in me. These people work and they earned it to make happen what is a true, "rags to riches," story. I give them a thumbs up on their aspirations. Korea is all about business and tech hardware manufacturing; not sales, culture, and entertainment like the West. It's tough to enjoy Korea, but it smells of opportunities to come, if you immerse and learn the language and culture. Going to Korea is a job; not a vacation. Going to Japan is an intellectually stimulating vacation for tech like going to Europe to appreciate the arts. |
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GoldMember
Joined: 24 Oct 2006
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:19 am Post subject: |
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Korean companies have been successful in increasing market share, thanks in part to a weak won.
The Japanese have been hurt by a rising won thanks to a reversal of the yen carry trade.
The two countries compete in many similar industries.
This recession is still early days. Japanese consumers are sitting on a lot of cash. Korean consumers are sitting on a lot of debt.
During a long protracted recession, I'm betting on the dude with money in the bank. |
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tefain

Joined: 19 Sep 2007 Location: Not too far out there
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:29 am Post subject: |
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Robot_Teacher wrote: |
I don't see Koreans as being real xenophobic as I do being shy and fearing of me. Many seem antisocial or come off as xeno due to not knowing English or lacking confidence in speaking what they know. As with everywhere in the world, some don't like YOU, but most are neutral, respectful with some liking YOU. They're many shy Koreans afraid of what I'll think of their English and image. I haven't felt they think of themselves as superior to me either like previous post states about the elite Japanese. If anything, many Koreans think the Westerner is superior due to technology, ideas, and English. I garner quite a bit of respect from many, but it's awkward as I just want them to relax and speak whatever English they can or just interact with me when I approach them as I'm not out to judge them nor should it matter to them what I think.
Korea's growing. I think it's a good investment to take a job, learn the language, and try to understand it as it looks like it's going somewhere upward. I'm seeing new businesses and many other infrastructure development of all types in full swing. Got a nice new shiny Paris Baguette a few weeks ago and then a big Home Plus store is under construction in Gangnueng. New roads and railways are being built. My neighbor building is a small business that has been doing nothing, but investing, developing the property, and showing signs of more activity. Some sort of widget place with Chinese writing as the name of the business. Not sure what all they got, but many bongo trucks are visiting with work men.
While Japan may be a powerhouse 3X larger than Korea, richer, and more high tech, it's too expensive to be competitive in a serious global economic downturn. Korea has it's flaws too such as import tariffs and other artificial economic protections, but is still winning on it's hard work producing tangible hardware products. Because Japan is too expensive, they have to outsource to China and eying Africa as the next frontier. Well, Korea and China are too in their opportunity seeking aspirations, but Japan is more exposed to the risks of global economic troubles. I've no citations on this claim, but read it, heard, and think it. Japan is too expensive to live in or travel frequently in unless you're a high paid professional. It's OK to dip in for a few days for a peek which I want to do just see what it's really like on the surface.
I see Korea as a developing country still developing with no intentions of slowing down. They operate in a vacuum economically speaking and are isolated as the moon so they're exempt from immediate world economic happenings, but if the world did stop buying Korean export products, then Korea would fall on hard times. That's highly unlikely as they make kickass electronics, practical efficient mechanically sound cars, and many widgets from A to Z. Even a new type of bullet train is under development in a city called, "Changwon," and robotics is big in Korea too. Even android types are in development. Korea is so highly diversified in it's conglomerate industries making it recession proof. I've got LG antibiotic pills, LG phone, and LG monitor and LG servo motors installed in me. These people work and they earned it to make happen what is a true, "rags to riches," story. I give them a thumbs up on their aspirations. Korea is all about business and tech hardware manufacturing; not sales, culture, and entertainment like the West. It's tough to enjoy Korea, but it smells of opportunities to come, if you immerse and learn the language and culture. Going to Korea is a job; not a vacation. Going to Japan is an intellectually stimulating vacation for tech like going to Europe to appreciate the arts. |
It's not necessary to be a 'high paid professional' to live in Japan. I've known several average salaried people who have lived there and enjoyed it. It IS expensive, but not to the point where someone doing this job couldn't do it.
I'm not sure what type of sales you mean exactly, but there is plenty of that here (both consumer and professional.) There's also all kinds of culture and entertainment in Korea (maybe not as much in your city, but you shouldn't need to go far.) |
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PeterDragon
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:16 am Post subject: |
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I sDSGFVVVVV
Last edited by PeterDragon on Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:44 am Post subject: Re: To everyone who told me I'd be better off in Japan: |
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The Bank of Korea is the source. In the same way that we don't believe what our governments tell us, you cannot believe what a politicized central bank reports.
Given the decline in exports, there is simply no mathematical way Korea is not in recession.
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2009/04/123_42378.html
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Exports Power 55% of Economy
Korea Becomes More Susceptible to External Shock
Korea has become increasingly susceptible to external shocks, with its dependence on overseas demand growing year after year, hitting a record high in 2008. This export orientation has left Asia's fourth largest economy with few policy options to deal with the ongoing crisis.
According to the Bank of Korea (BOK), exports accounted for 55 percent of the nation's gross national income (GNI) in 2008, up 11.2 percentage points from the previous year, and well above Britain's 26.3 percent, Japan's 22 percent and the U.S.' 18.5 percent
This was the first time the ratio has risen above 50 percent since the central bank began compiling related data in 2000. The ratio stood at 36.5 percent in 2003, 42.1 percent in 2004, 40.6 percent in 2005 and 41.2 percent in 2006.
``The impact of exports on the economy grew faster last year due to sluggish domestic demand and the weakening won,'' BOK senior economist Jung Yung-taek said.
The ratio of exports plus imports to GNI rose above 100 percent last year for the first time since 2000, recording 110.6 percent, up 24.7 percentage points from the preceding year's 85.9 percent.
Due to this over dependence on exports, Korea has fallen easy prey to external shocks from the global economic and financial turmoil. As the ongoing crisis suggests, once the global economy is in a slump, there's a direct impact on Korea.
Seoul Financial Forum Chairman Kim Ki-hwan picked high dependence on trade as the key factor making Korean financial markets more susceptible to external shocks than other markets.
``Our economy is very open and trade-dependent; we need more trade financing than other countries,'' Kim said.
``And some of our major exports, particularly ships, require us to rely more on forward markets,'' he added.
The bigger problem is that due to excessive dependence on trade, the government frequently intervenes in the currency market to boost exports, which results in more volatility there.
Market experts said that to create a cushion against a possible blow from the outside, the country must reduce export dependency by overhauling its economic structure.
One option is boosting domestic demand by developing knowledge-based services industries such as telecommunications, finance, insurance and accounting.
``From Japan one century ago to the Asian Tiger economies 50 years and China 30 years ago, the export-orientation model has made fast development possible,'' former Morgan Stanley Asia economist Andy Xie said.
``The problem with the model today is that it is crowded. Developing economies already account for 30 percent of the global economy at current prices. The export model cannot thrive because of a shortage of customers,'' he added. ``Developing countries have to trade more with each other and develop domestic demand.''
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Exports are just over 50% of the economy. Let us now look at export data from Jan:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aZUhRWc99aLw
Quote: |
Feb. 2 (Bloomberg) -- South Korea�s exports tumbled by a record 32.8 percent in January, foreshadowing a deepening slump in Asia�s export-driven economies |
How about December (not q1, I know, but demonstrates a strong trend):
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601068&refer=home&sid=am3vh2_Vl2WA
Quote: |
South Korea�s Exports Decline 17.4% in December |
Or March:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601068&refer=economy&sid=aeQgZ3m6.FLA
Quote: |
April 1 (Bloomberg) -- South Korea�s exports fell for a fifth month in March, the longest run of contractions since 2002, as demand from the U.S. and Japan weakened amid a global recession.
Overseas shipments declined 21.2 percent to $28.4 billion from a year ago after February�s revised 18.3 percent slide, the Ministry of Knowledge Economy said in Gwacheon today. The median estimate was for a 21.5 percent drop, according to a Bloomberg News survey of 11 economists. The country posted a record trade surplus of $4.6 billion. |
Yet CNN would have us believe that q1:
Quote: |
Instead of an expected downturn, Asia's fourth-largest economy squeaked out slight first-quarter GDP growth of 0.1 percent, rather than contracting by .2 percent as expected, according to the Bank of Korea. |
Not. A. Bloody. Chance. |
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Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:18 am Post subject: |
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PeterDragon wrote: |
I started this thread with economics more in mind than xenophobia, but since we're now on that track....
I've only visited Japan, not lived there, so take my comparisons with a grain of salt:
I think that on the surface the Japanese appear to be very tolerant, but are far less tolerant once you get to know them.
Koreans on the other hand appear to be ornery cusses on the surface but are (I've found) the dearest friends you can have if you can actually break through that outer shell.
I actually have very few Koreans I truly think of as friends--- but the Korean friends I do have are among the closest friends I've made anywhere in the world. They speak very openly to me about the misgivings they have about Westerners--- my own (Korean) fiance has admitted to me that she struggles with prejudice against Westerners.
Having said that, I think the air of nationalistic superiority you see in Koreans is a front--- I've found that once I truly gain the trust of a group of Koreans, they're as critical of their culture as I am. (And I am fairly critical of Korean culture; even more critical of my own culture.)
I see my Korean friends' criticism of my culture/home country as a mark of respect--- I understand why Koreans or Japanese would want to be tactful with outsiders they don't know very well. But once you get to know someone, you should respect them enough to tell them what you really think about their country and their culture.
I've met many wonderful Japanese people, and Japan itself is certainly cleaner and prettier, with nicer weather. I may try working in Japan someday, though I'd like to wait until their current economic troubles blow over. I could never see Japan as a country to settle down in though. It bothers me how deeply rooted their xenophobia and sense of superiority seems.
I hate being surrounded by people who truly see themselves as a master nation and feel the rest of the world owes them tribute. It's why I never want to permanently return to my own homeland, the United States. |
You haven't even lived in Japan. It's hard for you to really compare. Frankly, when I've lived overseas, it was not hard for me to get along with Japanese people. I find them to be very friendly people.
As I've said before, a friend of mine lives in Japan, and he lived in Korea. He has been cheated a couple of times in Korea, but it never happened to him in Japan. That's very important for many people who live overseas.
Yes, Japan has a serious problem of xenophobia. Technically, the citizenship of many non-ethnic Japanese is not equal to that of those who are ethnically Japanese.
However, there is a man of Finnish descent who is a Japanese citizen, and he is a member of the Japanese parliament. You can look it up. What non-ethnic Korean is member of the Korean assembly? I doubt any.
You said that you hate being around people who see themselves as a master nation i.e. Americans. Admittedly, I don't like it when people in America say America is the best country in the world, but, really, Korea has similar attitudes, and it is not more cosmopolitan than the United States. I think that the difference is that since you are not part of Korean culture, you can't see in the same way as you see it in America, so it's harder for you to see certain things.
I am not sure your thread has much meaning since you are saying Korea is better than Japan, but you are not referencing anyone who has lived in both Japan and Korea. You just visited Japan.
I do like Korea, but in my life I've found it easier to make friends with Japanese people for some reason. I can't tell you why. They seem more open to Westerners. It makes more of a difference here to be fluent in Korean, it appears, than it is to be fluent in Japanese in Japan to connect with the people.
I can't really say which place is better, but I have heard for teaching ESL you are more likely to not worry about being cheated in Japan versus
working in Korea. However, if you have a very good job and a Korean fiancee as you do, and you speak Korean, then you will champion Korea, obviously. The Japanese seem to encourage people to learn their language and culture more, and that's a major thing for many foreigners wanting an international experience.
Of course, my kids love it if I would know Korean, but the adults, generally, don't seem to be so open about their culture and language, unless I am missing something. I am trying to learn Korean, but I am teaching myself, and I am making progress. I can't say Koreans speak very openly as you say they do with you.
Every place has its good points and bad points, and we all have our different circumstances and the people we meet.
I am going to be biased. I like Korea, it's a nice place, and I have never lived in Japan, but when I went there I was impressed with the place.
If I lived there, it might be a different story, so I cannot really say which place is better for EFL teachers. I have only heard that Japan is better for teachers. Tigerbeer hasn't bothered posting on Dave's ESL to let us know how things are over there.
A bunch jumped ship and went to Japan, but did not report back. I am curious to hear from people who lived in both places. I am sure there are beautiful people in both places, and I am happy the OP is happy.
There are many reasons for many folks to love Korea and to stay here.
As far as master nations, I believe this country has much of that type of mentality in its own way the idea of superiority. |
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Ukon
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:42 am Post subject: |
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Adventurer wrote: |
PeterDragon wrote: |
I started this thread with economics more in mind than xenophobia, but since we're now on that track....
I've only visited Japan, not lived there, so take my comparisons with a grain of salt:
I think that on the surface the Japanese appear to be very tolerant, but are far less tolerant once you get to know them.
Koreans on the other hand appear to be ornery cusses on the surface but are (I've found) the dearest friends you can have if you can actually break through that outer shell.
I actually have very few Koreans I truly think of as friends--- but the Korean friends I do have are among the closest friends I've made anywhere in the world. They speak very openly to me about the misgivings they have about Westerners--- my own (Korean) fiance has admitted to me that she struggles with prejudice against Westerners.
Having said that, I think the air of nationalistic superiority you see in Koreans is a front--- I've found that once I truly gain the trust of a group of Koreans, they're as critical of their culture as I am. (And I am fairly critical of Korean culture; even more critical of my own culture.)
I see my Korean friends' criticism of my culture/home country as a mark of respect--- I understand why Koreans or Japanese would want to be tactful with outsiders they don't know very well. But once you get to know someone, you should respect them enough to tell them what you really think about their country and their culture.
I've met many wonderful Japanese people, and Japan itself is certainly cleaner and prettier, with nicer weather. I may try working in Japan someday, though I'd like to wait until their current economic troubles blow over. I could never see Japan as a country to settle down in though. It bothers me how deeply rooted their xenophobia and sense of superiority seems.
I hate being surrounded by people who truly see themselves as a master nation and feel the rest of the world owes them tribute. It's why I never want to permanently return to my own homeland, the United States. |
You haven't even lived in Japan. It's hard for you to really compare. Frankly, when I've lived overseas, it was not hard for me to get along with Japanese people. I find them to be very friendly people.
As I've said before, a friend of mine lives in Japan, and he lived in Korea. He has been cheated a couple of times in Korea, but it never happened to him in Japan. That's very important for many people who live overseas.
Yes, Japan has a serious problem of xenophobia. Technically, the citizenship of many non-ethnic Japanese is not equal to that of those who are ethnically Japanese.
However, there is a man of Finnish descent who is a Japanese citizen, and he is a member of the Japanese parliament. You can look it up. What non-ethnic Korean is member of the Korean assembly? I doubt any.
You said that you hate being around people who see themselves as a master nation i.e. Americans. Admittedly, I don't like it when people in America say America is the best country in the world, but, really, Korea has similar attitudes, and it is not more cosmopolitan than the United States. I think that the difference is that since you are not part of Korean culture, you can't see in the same way as you see it in America, so it's harder for you to see certain things.
I am not sure your thread has much meaning since you are saying Korea is better than Japan, but you are not referencing anyone who has lived in both Japan and Korea. You just visited Japan.
I do like Korea, but in my life I've found it easier to make friends with Japanese people for some reason. I can't tell you why. They seem more open to Westerners. It makes more of a difference here to be fluent in Korean, it appears, than it is to be fluent in Japanese in Japan to connect with the people.
I can't really say which place is better, but I have heard for teaching ESL you are more likely to not worry about being cheated in Japan versus
working in Korea. However, if you have a very good job and a Korean fiancee as you do, and you speak Korean, then you will champion Korea, obviously. The Japanese seem to encourage people to learn their language and culture more, and that's a major thing for many foreigners wanting an international experience.
Of course, my kids love it if I would know Korean, but the adults, generally, don't seem to be so open about their culture and language, unless I am missing something. I am trying to learn Korean, but I am teaching myself, and I am making progress. I can't say Koreans speak very openly as you say they do with you.
Every place has its good points and bad points, and we all have our different circumstances and the people we meet.
I am going to be biased. I like Korea, it's a nice place, and I have never lived in Japan, but when I went there I was impressed with the place.
If I lived there, it might be a different story, so I cannot really say which place is better for EFL teachers. I have only heard that Japan is better for teachers. Tigerbeer hasn't bothered posting on Dave's ESL to let us know how things are over there.
A bunch jumped ship and went to Japan, but did not report back. I am curious to hear from people who lived in both places. I am sure there are beautiful people in both places, and I am happy the OP is happy.
There are many reasons for many folks to love Korea and to stay here.
As far as master nations, I believe this country has much of that type of mentality in its own way the idea of superiority. |
There are shady hagwon type dealios in japan...it's just that most of the foreigners who go to work go with a big chain the first time....rather than the million of mom and pop places like in Korea....and if your looking for horror storries, type Nova into your browser....that was a gigantic Chain that flopped and screwed over foreigners regulary.
As for koreans not being open to westerns thats Utter BS.....I get the impression they're far too direct to tolerate dipS**** from other countries unlike the Japanese who will simply nod and smile before talking behind your back.....it's one of my favorite traits about them Truth be told, I find most of these complaints laughable....if you wanna see koreans be unaccepted, go talk to some Indians or even better some 3D workers....hell, even my kyopo friends who can't speak korean get it worse than some of the whiniest white boys on this board. |
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Ginormousaurus

Joined: 27 Jul 2006 Location: 700 Ft. Pulpit
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:58 am Post subject: |
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Robot_Teacher wrote: |
I don't see Koreans as being real xenophobic as I do being shy and fearing of me. Many seem antisocial or come off as xeno due to not knowing English or lacking confidence in speaking what they know. As with everywhere in the world, some don't like YOU, but most are neutral, respectful with some liking YOU. They're many shy Koreans afraid of what I'll think of their English and image. I haven't felt they think of themselves as superior to me either like previous post states about the elite Japanese. If anything, many Koreans think the Westerner is superior due to technology, ideas, and English. I garner quite a bit of respect from many, but it's awkward as I just want them to relax and speak whatever English they can or just interact with me when I approach them as I'm not out to judge them nor should it matter to them what I think.
Korea's growing. I think it's a good investment to take a job, learn the language, and try to understand it as it looks like it's going somewhere upward. I'm seeing new businesses and many other infrastructure development of all types in full swing. Got a nice new shiny Paris Baguette a few weeks ago and then a big Home Plus store is under construction in Gangnueng. New roads and railways are being built. My neighbor building is a small business that has been doing nothing, but investing, developing the property, and showing signs of more activity. Some sort of widget place with Chinese writing as the name of the business. Not sure what all they got, but many bongo trucks are visiting with work men.
While Japan may be a powerhouse 3X larger than Korea, richer, and more high tech, it's too expensive to be competitive in a serious global economic downturn. Korea has it's flaws too such as import tariffs and other artificial economic protections, but is still winning on it's hard work producing tangible hardware products. Because Japan is too expensive, they have to outsource to China and eying Africa as the next frontier. Well, Korea and China are too in their opportunity seeking aspirations, but Japan is more exposed to the risks of global economic troubles. I've no citations on this claim, but read it, heard, and think it. Japan is too expensive to live in or travel frequently in unless you're a high paid professional. It's OK to dip in for a few days for a peek which I want to do just see what it's really like on the surface.
I see Korea as a developing country still developing with no intentions of slowing down. They operate in a vacuum economically speaking and are isolated as the moon so they're exempt from immediate world economic happenings, but if the world did stop buying Korean export products, then Korea would fall on hard times. That's highly unlikely as they make kickass electronics, practical efficient mechanically sound cars, and many widgets from A to Z. Even a new type of bullet train is under development in a city called, "Changwon," and robotics is big in Korea too. Even android types are in development. Korea is so highly diversified in it's conglomerate industries making it recession proof. I've got LG antibiotic pills, LG phone, and LG monitor and LG servo motors installed in me. These people work and they earned it to make happen what is a true, "rags to riches," story. I give them a thumbs up on their aspirations. Korea is all about business and tech hardware manufacturing; not sales, culture, and entertainment like the West. It's tough to enjoy Korea, but it smells of opportunities to come, if you immerse and learn the language and culture. Going to Korea is a job; not a vacation. Going to Japan is an intellectually stimulating vacation for tech like going to Europe to appreciate the arts. |
Are you SOJOURNER? |
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superacidjax

Joined: 17 Oct 2006 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:45 am Post subject: |
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Wow. Is it really necessary to always quote someone's post in its entirety? My scrolling works pretty well..
But to those that love to quote entire posts.. Thanks! You've saved me valuable time that would have been wasted scrolling up to read everything again.
Perhaps quoting the specific point of contention would make for a more poignant response? |
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Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:58 am Post subject: |
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Ukon wrote: |
There are shady hagwon type dealios in japan...it's just that most of the foreigners who go to work go with a big chain the first time....rather than the million of mom and pop places like in Korea....and if your looking for horror storries, type Nova into your browser....that was a gigantic Chain that flopped and screwed over foreigners regulary.
As for koreans not being open to westerns thats Utter BS.....I get the impression they're far too direct to tolerate dipS**** from other countries unlike the Japanese who will simply nod and smile before talking behind your back.....it's one of my favorite traits about them Truth be told, I find most of these complaints laughable....if you wanna see koreans be unaccepted, go talk to some Indians or even better some 3D workers....hell, even my kyopo friends who can't speak korean get it worse than some of the whiniest white boys on this board. |
Yes, everyone heard of Nova. However, that was a whole corporation folding. That could happen in any country. I cannot say with any authority which country is worse for ESL teachers. I wish I could say.
I did go look on the Japan forum before, and you do see school complaints and what not. I know they are lenient about doing privates in Japan.
I do not know how they deal with contracts. We just know that Canadians and Americans are warned about working here. Do people get the same warnings in Japan? I am certain there are corrupt bosses in Japan. I've seen that on the Japan forums. I didn't feel the mood was the same as the Korean board. You haven't lived in Japan, either.
It would be good to hear from some folks who lived in both places.
As far as Koreans generally being open to Westerners, I haven't not really seen major evidence that the society welcomes Westerners or Asians. Yes, many are friendly to us. Do you feel that Koreans encourage Westerners to learn their language? Do you feel that your average Korean wants to befriend Westerners?
That may or not may be the case. The people I know who have Korean friends usually have a certain command of the language. Of course, plenty of people have boyfriends or girlfriends, depending on their gender.
I've only been to Japan once. I found that when I went there even if people couldn't speak English, they'd tried to help me, and it was a very clean country. Koreans who speak a decent amount of English in Seoul will try to help. Discrimination could be worse over there. A Russian Korean who came here and can't speak Korean when he couldn't speak Korean back to Koreans they would ask him in Korean if he was retarded.
With Kyopos, it's hard to say how things are like. Some of them are treated like regular Koreans and some try to hide that they're American. Do I feel Korea is welcome to Westerners? It's going in that direction and becoming more welcoming, but with bad banking practices, xenophobic articles, you still don't quite get that impression. Of course, Asians from poor countries are treated worse. Westerners are considered high status foreigners, and those from other Asian countries, except for Japan, are low status Asians.
The Japanese are used to the idea of Japanese Brazilians or Japanese overseas, it appears. I can't say how the Japanese people view ethnic Japanese who left Japan generations ago. |
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yupkime

Joined: 03 Nov 2004 Location: Somewhere far away from Seoul
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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This all doesn't matter too much in the long run.
If a population cannot replace itself it's just a matter of time before they become irrelevant. Japan first and Korea soon after if current trends continue. Russia is bad too apparently.
The only way now to save themselves is to open the doors to immigrants which probably won't happen on any large scale to be effective ... |
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OneWayTraffic
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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yupkime wrote: |
This all doesn't matter too much in the long run.
If a population cannot replace itself it's just a matter of time before they become irrelevant. Japan first and Korea soon after if current trends continue. Russia is bad too apparently.
The only way now to save themselves is to open the doors to immigrants which probably won't happen on any large scale to be effective ... |
When you have 120million, it's not hard to sustain a few generations of population decrease. Given time the population will stabilize. |
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