Korean Job Discussion Forums

[ThreeDogNight]

How many of you get along with your Korean co-workers or Western co-workers, and if not, what are some of the main obstacles or difficulties you've run into with them here?

Some of the problems I've run into here, with the Korean coworkers, is this sense of motherly, matriarchalism with some of the females, where they appear to take the job as a sort of mother hen gathering all the children unto themselves and the Western male, or any male for that matter, is considered completely ignorant of the needs and duties of taking care of children.

I also can't understand the confusion and unnecessary complexities Koreans generate at the work place, like making schedules, doing tests, and organizing, when they could just make things a heck of a lot simpler. Then, when you do take control of such disorder, you often run up against a brick wall, and a sort of sour-faced pride that ends in contention.

I also can't understand the Korean women's attitude, which at times seems to me pure crassness.

As for Western co-workers, I feel a few are too negative about Korea in general, although I know this post may sound negative in itself. Others are downright arrogant and rude.

But I really just want to find out what sort of problems any teachers here have faced and if there are any similarities and possible solutions.

[Mr. Pink]

Always got along with my co-workers.

One contract I worked at a place I totally didn't get along with my supervisor...but I was cool with the director.

If the Korean teachers want to do lots of work, well that is up to them.

I don't know what you mean by them making tests, schedules, organizing etc is unnecessary.

I think anyone who takes their job serious is going to put a bit of work into it. A lot of foreigners feel they are here on holiday, but to the Korean's, this IS their full time job.

[ThreeDogNight]

[peppermint]

It seems very hit or miss. At my last school I was pretty tight with the Korean teachers and reasonably friendly with the foreigners.

I suspect at the new job, I'll be friendly but distant, cause all the foreigners seem to be homebodies and the Koreans don't seem to speak very good English (for English teachers). It's no big deal- the new apartment is in the bar district and it's a friendly city.

[dominic]

I cant stand my supervior, and the other western teachers at my school feel the same way. You ask her a question and she stares at you like you just insulted her dying mother. She's very bi*chy and makes it hard to work with her, but whenever we bring up a concern we are "complaining" and she tells us to stop like we're 11, but if they have a problem with us they can complian til their blue. I've stopped trying to figure it out, I dont get through 2 weeks at work without having some type of confrontation with her, 5 more months 5 more months 5 more months, im just gonna keep saying this like a mantra to keep myself grounded.

[ThreeDogNight]

I see Dominic's dilemma as the same scenario I or others might've experienced here, which makes me wonder what it is about Korean female supervisors, bosses, and co-workers that is just plain mystifying. I think it might be this:

The idea that the boss, or president of a company, or male authoritarianism, is so engrained in Korean female's frame of mind, that when given a position of authority themselves, they totally misuse their authority to the point of abuse. I guess they've been so indoctrinated from childhood that superiors are sacrosanct and subordinates inferior, being women and all, that they just can't see things on an equal footing with subordinates, but must see themselves as superior or something.

Just my guess. As for communication, it's got to be the most enigmatic aspect of working with Korean women. To make a comment towards their mistakes is to invite confrontation; to receive a comment about your mistakes is to receive condemnation, as if the world is coming to an end. No such thing as constructive criticism, really, all of which I attribute to this sense of saving face.

[rapier]

Dominic& threedognight: i totally hear yous. I have a female supervisor, and she is one of the trickiest, uptight, b***es i've ever met. Now i avoid any contact with her whatsoever, as the most innocent of queries turns into a confrontation. Its really wierd and unnecesary! But she seems to follow some strict authoritarian code whereby she has to be seen to be in hitleresque control- strange considering she's lived 3 years in the west.
get her on her own and she's a sweetheart. but in the workplace, she cause more tension than she is worth..She will drive you to a show of temper by her patronising chat, and then when you start to shout, she'll go quiet as if you've lost your marbles. Its all so silly!
I don't think Koreans have the western idea that "superiors" and "underlings" can coexist with mutual respect, assistance, and clear communication. Its frustrating, because essentially I'm trying to work with her and get along, not be her enemy..

[ryleeys]

My director is somewhere around 50 years old and female. Seems to speak down to everyone and from what the other teachers have told me, she uses impolite forms of speech with them. On the other hand, outside of work, she seems to generally want to be friends. This weekend I think she and her family are taking me on a vacation to the East Sea....

I personally find it very hard to be completely friends with someone outside of work and then have to deal with being completely submissive and having no opinion that matters inside work.



On a somewhat similar note... before I am allowed to go home for the day, I have to speak with my director, even if it's only to say goodbye. The problem is that she's taken to leaving work long before I do, which sometimes isn't a problem because it's okay to call her and say goodbye for the evening. Where the problem comes in is that I don't speak more than a few phrases in Korean and find it very difficult to make phone calls, so one of the other teachers calls my director for me. Except that she was "busy" (common! You can't stop sweeping for 3 minutes to help me out?) and so I had to wait for two friggin' hours after I was done with all my work before I could leave. That frustrated me to no extent since it was New Years Eve... I have no problem with adapting to some of the rules, but if you're gonna make me follow them, don't go out of your way to make it hard on me.

[Mr. Pink]

I think that by nature Koreans seem bad at administrative work. I have never heard of anyone knowing something "in advance". Some examples for you.

I worked my first 3 years here at a hawgwon. I never got the next month's schedule until either the absolute LAST day of the current month, OR the morning of the new month/season. I got told like a day or two before they were going to move me out of my apt. Once I packed everything up and had them say "oh we are postponing it a month" they tell me that the same hour we are supposed to be moving.

I was always informed with short notice if parents were going to watch my classes, or the supervisor was going to watch.

The admin side just seemed so disorganized, and I think the reason is most Koreans are not good decision makers. The society always lets someone "higher" make the decision. Think about how many kids let their parents dictate who they can marry - enough said.

At my current job it is worse. The admin type things make me shudder. Seriously, the only word that comes to mind is CLUSTER ***K. Seriously, I have never signed a contract the week before my old one is going to expire, they wait on stuff last minute. The reason - too many people are in the loop and only 1-2 people can make the final decisions.

If there is a staff event I usually find out the DAY OF, or at the end of the day BEFORE the day of. If I have to submit something I find out usually that day, or get told to have it in before I could possibly have it ready.

I usually don't like to "korea bash" or talk negatively, but administration just isn't done well in this country.



Can I hear an AMEN?

[rapier]

Interesting discussion here...threedognight: no sense of constructive criticism is right...
After my 2- day "induction period" at my present hagwon, the supervisor was appalled that i still made mistakes/ didn't fully understand everything about how she wanted me to teach...condemnation, no encouragement,no people skills, condesenscion, the perfect formula to get the hackles of any westerner rising.
But I see it everywhere- in shops, restaurants, everywhere. The boss instructs his downtrodden staff as if they were 10 yr olds caught stealing. this is one thing I don't think I'll ever get used to.

[rapier]

Another observation I have of Korea and the workplace situation here, is that Koreans are gossip loving busybodies who know everything about the lives of the waegooks. Its a hothouse, incestuous environment, riddled with silly politics and appearances. even the waegooks succomb to a similar incestuous mentality.
Anonymity? In korea? I don't think so.

[captain kirk]

I just got back from two months holiday in Thailand and am about to start another hagwon job. I have the notion that to make this year pleasant and upbeat I'll jettison/drop negative thinking. Teaching is tiring, there's a lot of harried/frayed nerves dealing with wonderful Korean children who aren't disciplined and see the hagwon as 'party time'. Pitch in the possibilities of friction with co-workers and management. Add this and that about 'living in Korea' and there's a full plate. One of the posters stated a New Year's resolution to try to step back and chill out a bit before responding to what life appears to offer in tense moments, tempting one to be reactive. Koreans lead with their feelings which, if they are serving up some negative vibes, can be a temptation to pitch it right back. Avoid the 'us' and 'them' mindset and just 'do my job'.
When I'm 'annoyed at Korea', or so I think, I've thought about what's annoying and tried to find its equivalent where I come from. For example I was on an intercity bus and the TV was on. It was the news. The newsperson, speaking in Korean, rattled their words very quickly and loudly like it was the 'gospel', I 'found'. But I was always annoyed by the same thing in newscasts back home. Similarly, there are annoying people back home who seem to 'make life difficult for you' with their 'horrible ways'. Being 'unhappy' in Korea doesn't necessarily mean Korea is 'out to get you'. If, tired from teaching full tilt and using up more energy reserves that you are aware of in the seeming mayhem, you keep being annoyed at 'Korea' and 'things Korean' it's not being all that reasonable or good to one's health. Teaching in one's OWN culture is notorious for causing fatigue, let alone the potential anxiety of being 'a stranger in a strange land'.
I DON'T know how to guarantee things will go smoothly at this new job. But I think that being polite, civil and delicate around the easily bruised pride of Koreans, so aware of levels of hierarchy, is something to mind by 'counting to ten' when one feels a flash of ire.

[Skarp]

Some stuff is different in Korea

But other stuff is just wrong.

A lot of teh things here that I hate I tell myself they are like a western country in the 1950s. The macho bulls::t. The working hours. The hierarchy in work and family life. Restrictions on teh sexual freedom of girls (esp).

Korea will wake up and smell the coffee pretty soon. Already teh younger generations are letting teh oldies know they are not playing by the same rules.

Bad admin is a worldwide disease however. Some of teh late decisions are an attempt to qwell resistance even before it starts - tehre is no time..

Trying to tell tehm how to do stuff better or god forbid - show them is only going to annoy them. To be fair - I have seen worse in UK schools and colleges than in Korea - so far.

I was bemused by Koreans tendancy to explain the obvious while avoiding explaining what I really need to know. Being told how to work the blinds on a window but not teh washing machine in a goshiwon, for example.

I wonder if we are expecting a level of brains and savvy that Koreans in hogwans lack?? After all - it's a lousy job teaching in a hogwan - being admin asst in one has got to be worse still.

Happy new year all

Skarp