Korean Job Discussion Forums

[dharma bum]

i've noticed a lot of debates about racism in threads lately. one poster will call another racist (or say that his/her comment was racist) and then the other will say he/she is not racist for whatever reason, which will lead to posturing and moral statements about what kind of generalizations are acceptable, and so. differences in opinion/perception on this matter have also led to the closing of threads and the possible censuring of posters (i am completely unaware of the details), which to some might indicate the importance of this topic within our small internet community.

so i thought that this thread, in addition to directing the racism debate away from the innocent threads that are being disrupted by it, would be a good idea in that it will give people a place to learn about and discuss something that is very important in the world we live in and possibly allow us as community to come up with some kind of consensus about what we deem acceptable and what kind of thinking we are using when we talk about certain issues within our lives here in Korea.

anyways, to hurry up and get to the point, what is "racism"? is it just making a generalization about a race or does it imply some kind of negative feelings/ideas about that race? also, why is it worse to be racist than to hold preconceptions about a person from another group/culture (as opposed to another race)? or is it racism to hold preconceptions about the people from a certain culture as well, even if those people do not, strictly speaking, constitute a race (e.g., Koreans)?

[traxxe]

My view on racism is that it consists of hating someone based on some superficial criteria.

I just had a post locked because I was apparently racist. I hate Korean culture. I have nothing againt Koreans who do not adhere to what I feel is an ethically lacking culture. I do not feel this is racism. The reason I hate this culture is because it IS racist against people of darker skin color. My wife has come home crying more than once due to racism in this culture.

Recently we went apartment hunting and had one landlord raise the key money once he found out we wanted to rent his place and saw we were different. Another time one refused to even show us the place based on our looks. That's racism.

Hating the culture that supports rapists then blames women, and excuses its other morally lacking actions by accusing you of not understanding its culture is not racism.

Korean culture is racist. Not everyone is bad that is Korean. It has nothing to do with being ethnically Korean. It has to do with the underlying principles that shape the societies actions. So while Korean culture is racist. Hating Korean culture is not racist.

But whatever, that will probably be locked for racist. It probably doesn't help that I called the culture an asspimple. Which, again... is not racism.

[ThingsComeAround]

From the Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Main Entry:
rac�ism Listen to the pronunciation of racism
Pronunciation:
\ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm also -ˌshi-\
Function:
noun
Date:
1933

1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race 2 : racial prejudice or discrimination

[ThingsComeAround]

I feel Koreans in America are particularly racist, or bigots.

They claim a "common ground" because they were "oppressed" (by Japanese, and that was their own fault).

These people do not live poor lives, however. They are well-schooled and well-fed individuals that tote their bibles and step on others that have darker skin because they are "Christ-bearers"...

I feel that Koreans in Korea are less bigoted, or at least less cowardly about showing their true feelings.

[the_wicker_man]

Hi - this is a really bad place for this kind of discussion. You'll need a different forum at another website.

wicker

[Captain Corea]

For me, a current view of 'racism' consists of judging or prejudging someone based on race, national, or ethnic lines.

To me, there's a distict difference between...

Koreans are stupid.

to

Many of the Koreans I have met have not seemed that bright. They often...

While they are both very similar statements, to me, there's a difference.

[RACETRAITOR]

This is ESL Cafe.

If you want less racism and more open-minded debate, I recommend www.skinheads.net

[clay4bc]

[Goku]

I find, particularly on this forum,

Some individuals lacking capacity to distinguish;

What is Korean vs isolated incident.

SOME foreigners ("some") like to attribute ONE particular behavior, one attribute or one single event to ALL Koreans, while it having no bearing on culture or general behavior.

In my opinion, It's stupid and downright racist. I have little respect for these kind of people; not because they are "racist" rather they lack intellectual capacity to distinguish isolated events from cultural behavior.

For example, here is a common fallacy; Observing a trait, which could be common to any human being on this planet, but labeling it as distinctive to Korean culture. "I always see drunken Ajosshis pee on the street. What a disgusting Korean habit." Well here's news. Drunks piss EVERYWHERE. It's not a Korean habit, it's a bloody drunken habit and attributing it as Korean is lacking judgment to be able to distinguish.

People who make conclusions like this usually are foreigners who have no experience outside their own countries (ergo anything new to them is labeled Korean). I did this in the earlier part of my time here. I used to ask my Korean co-teacher dumb questions like, "Do Koreans men like to cheat on their wives? (Because of all the prostitution). You can imagine how ignorant I felt when she said "Don't men everywhere like to cheat on their wives?"

In addition, what comprises racist behavior usually carries some sort of value judgment. Ie. Spitting is bad, taking off shoes is bad, sitting in chairs is good, etc...

Admittedly some tenants of whats "good" and what's "bad" are universal. But most of the crap that's spouted on Dave's is utter BS. You can have distaste for Korean culture or you can be downright judging it. Some people believe they have the right answers as to what's right or wrong. I won't get into this moral philosophy as it will take hours to explain and debate. The gist is, morality and culture don't always overlap. And other times they don't even touch each other.

------------------------------------------

Saying "Koreans are dirty" is a racist comment. While saying "Koreans spit on street" is not quite as racist. The most PC statement would be "I have observed some Koreans spitting on the street.". And I find that on Dave's Forums, usually the former is most predominant. (Captain Corea is well aware of this)

ALL humans have some element of innate racism. However, It's our ability to recognize and not let it affect our opinions that matter. Humans are built to recognize patterns and characteristics they find favorable in their environment. Basic survival behavior. We like things that are familiar to us. (There's a minority of adventurers though)

Which toilet do you prefer to use? The one at home? Or the one in the subway? You prefer the one at home because you are more familiar to it and you know what to expect. God knows what a public toilet has.

I have to admit, i do find most Koreans slightly xenophobic (However, the degree is small and admittedly I can understand that in a culture that's highly homogeneous) Koreans are afraid of us. We look different, act different, and talk different. They are "xenophobic" because we aren't familiar territory. There is a fair amount of evidence of this in my personal experience and on the forums, so I'm apt to believe it true. Like Traxxe said.

I don't blame them, as for reasons stated, but I do think the people on Dave's are supposedly college educated from "melting pot" countries would have some sense to be able to avoid racist comments and be able to teach this avoidance of racial comments to the Koreans we teach. Rather we find people whining about it.

Most Whitey's first bite with racism leaves them in tears, and they keep searching dumb ass excuses that make the Korean culture culpable for their woes.

[ovrproof]

Welcome to the world of being a minority... thats the way people of colour have been treated all over the west... you somehow think because you are white that you are above the bullshit that happens to the rest of the human race when they move somewhere else? get off yor high horses of morality and step into reality... most koreans aren't racist, most don't give a shit... but it's the few idiots that one tends to remember... regardless of the fact - if you are white you are priviledged where ever you go in the world... people associate whiteness with wealth, intelligence and culture - whereas blacks are often looked upon as nuiscances to society and brutish...

what's racist? being stared at? haha.... you guys are too soft skinned...

[Zulethe]

I'm not racist, I hate everybody.

Maaate! Seriously mate!

[clay4bc]

[madoka]

[NilesQ]

I think any definition needs to be in neutral language. I always say that racism is treating or viewing someone differently based on their race. So it is just as racist to treat a person preferentialy based upon their race as it is to treat them badly because of it. I thik we lose sight of that.

Affirmative action is an extremely racist program in and of itself. It uses race as a deciding factor in the giving of jobs. I am not nesecarialy against it, but the fact that most people view it as a tool to combat racism is crazy. Say it is to make up for past wrongs/social & economic inequality, but never to eliminate racism. If anything, in the short term, I think it increases racism.

I also think that the term race has become a catch-all that encompasses nationalism, classism, and religious rivalries. It is a social grouping rather than the actual scientific groupings of people based on physical traits, which furthur muddles the topic.

[candyteacher]