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Yaya

Joined: 25 Feb 2003 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:05 am Post subject: 2008 was the year man-made global warming was disproved |
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The first, on May 21, headed "Climate change threat to Alpine ski resorts" , reported that the entire Alpine "winter sports industry" could soon "grind to a halt for lack of snow". The second, on December 19, headed "The Alps have best snow conditions in a generation" , reported that this winter's Alpine snowfalls "look set to beat all records by New Year's Day".
Easily one of the most important stories of 2008 has been all the evidence suggesting that this may be looked back on as the year when there was a turning point in the great worldwide panic over man-made global warming. Just when politicians in Europe and America have been adopting the most costly and damaging measures politicians have ever proposed, to combat this supposed menace, the tide has turned in three significant respects.
First, all over the world, temperatures have been dropping in a way wholly unpredicted by all those computer models which have been used as the main drivers of the scare. Last winter, as temperatures plummeted, many parts of the world had snowfalls on a scale not seen for decades. This winter, with the whole of Canada and half the US under snow, looks likely to be even worse. After several years flatlining, global temperatures have dropped sharply enough to cancel out much of their net rise in the 20th century.
Ever shriller and more frantic has become the insistence of the warmists, cheered on by their army of media groupies such as the BBC, that the last 10 years have been the "hottest in history" and that the North Pole would soon be ice-free � as the poles remain defiantly icebound and those polar bears fail to drown. All those hysterical predictions that we are seeing more droughts and hurricanes than ever before have infuriatingly failed to materialise.
Even the more cautious scientific acolytes of the official orthodoxy now admit that, thanks to "natural factors" such as ocean currents, temperatures have failed to rise as predicted (although they plaintively assure us that this cooling effect is merely "masking the underlying warming trend", and that the temperature rise will resume worse than ever by the middle of the next decade).
Secondly, 2008 was the year when any pretence that there was a "scientific consensus" in favour of man-made global warming collapsed. At long last, as in the Manhattan Declaration last March, hundreds of proper scientists, including many of the world's most eminent climate experts, have been rallying to pour scorn on that "consensus" which was only a politically engineered artefact, based on ever more blatantly manipulated data and computer models programmed to produce no more than convenient fictions.
Thirdly, as banks collapsed and the global economy plunged into its worst recession for decades, harsh reality at last began to break in on those self-deluding dreams which have for so long possessed almost every politician in the western world. As we saw in this month's Poznan conference, when 10,000 politicians, officials and "environmentalists" gathered to plan next year's "son of Kyoto" treaty in Copenhagen, panicking politicians are waking up to the fact that the world can no longer afford all those quixotic schemes for "combating climate change" with which they were so happy to indulge themselves in more comfortable times.
Suddenly it has become rather less appealing that we should divert trillions of dollars, pounds and euros into the fantasy that we could reduce emissions of carbon dioxide by 80 per cent. All those grandiose projects for "emissions trading", "carbon capture", building tens of thousands more useless wind turbines, switching vast areas of farmland from producing food to "biofuels", are being exposed as no more than enormously damaging and futile gestures, costing astronomic sums we no longer possess.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/3982101/2008-was-the-year-man-made-global-warming-was-disproved.html |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007 Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:11 am Post subject: |
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| But we're continually reminded of all of the polar ice chunks breaking off. |
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Gimpokid

Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Location: Best Gimpo
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Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:29 am Post subject: |
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| I've always wondered the motivation for lying about climate change was. |
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OnTheOtherSide

Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:44 am Post subject: |
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Wow. I can't believe some people are still clinging to the idea that climate change is not happening. It definantly is happening, it's a fairly simple concept. Do you really think that all this industrial technology is having no effect at all?
Most of these "clean" technologies are not too clean though. The fact is that we are destroying the environment. The solution to the problem is what is lacking. For billions of people to surive in a modern world, we gotta destroy the Earth a bit. The solution will probably not come soon enough before we destroy ourselves though.
We're all gonna die, be very afraid. |
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pkang0202

Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:47 am Post subject: |
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| There is a reason Global Warming people changed their tune from "Global Warming" to "Climate Change". By using the term "Climate Change", they can account for Global Cooling also. |
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asylum seeker
Joined: 22 Jul 2007 Location: On your computer screen.
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Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:48 am Post subject: |
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So one article from the notoriously right wing Daily Telegraph and you're convinced global warming is a hoax.
Even if global warming were a hoax this doesn't address the fact the oil is a finite resource and it is not possible to indefinitely consume greater and greater amounts of it as the world's population grows and the number of cars multiplies. |
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jkelly80

Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Location: you boys like mexico?
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Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:50 am Post subject: |
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| The only thing I read here is politicians backing off their support because of the 'anti-growth' stigma that goes along with climate change policy. Until the IGPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) reverses their stance, all this bluster is just journalists blowing hot air. |
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OnTheOtherSide

Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:52 am Post subject: |
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Wow, I can't believe this.
Why do you all think climate change is a hoax? |
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Beeyee

Joined: 29 May 2007
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Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:53 am Post subject: |
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| Gimpokid wrote: |
| I've always wondered the motivation for lying about climate change was. |
Of course the reasons are numerous, however a global 'Carbon Tax' is very much top of the agenda. |
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aka Dave
Joined: 02 May 2008 Location: Down by the river
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Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:04 am Post subject: |
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Climate change happens over long periods, and projections have to account for static which is inherent in any system as complex as the global climate. So, essentially, you're disproving your argument with your title, op. If you said "Global warming proved in 2008" I'd say it would be just as misinformed.
And about special interests, come on. The petroleum industry is an industry that rakes in trillions. Yeah, them hippy scientists must have bought out the media from poor Exxon, Gulf, etc. There are a lot of scientists making a lot of money to prove some way, some how, all the data is false, reaching for straws.
To be honest, I hope the right wingers are right. But remember how these people operate. They have an ideological point of view that *does not* vary based on empirical evidence; it's sort of a political religion. The Bush administration is a classic example of ideology trumping reality.
The Daily Telegraph? I call BS. When the Cambridge University atmospheric science dept. calls global warming bogus, okay, I'll listen. But not a right wing rag. |
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asylum seeker
Joined: 22 Jul 2007 Location: On your computer screen.
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Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:08 am Post subject: |
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| Gimpokid wrote: |
| I've always wondered the motivation for lying about climate change was. |
For many climate change "skeptics" it's about getting paid by the big oil companies:
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According to The Guardian, ExxonMobil has funded, among other groups skeptical of global warming, the Competitive Enterprise Institute, George C. Marshall Institute, Heartland Institute, Congress on Racial Equality, TechCentralStation.com, and International Policy Network.[41][42] ExxonMobil's support for these organizations has drawn criticism from the Royal Society, the academy of sciences of the United Kingdom.[43] The Union of Concerned Scientists released a report in 2007 accusing ExxonMobil of spending $16 million, between 1998 and 2005, towards 43 advocacy organizations which dispute the impact of global warming.[44] The report argued that ExxonMobil used disinformation tactics similar to those used by the tobacco industry in its denials of the link between lung cancer and smoking, saying that the company used "many of the same organizations and personnel to cloud the scientific understanding of climate change and delay action on the issue."[44] These charges are consistent with a purported 1998 internal ExxonMobil strategy memo, posted by the environmental group Environmental Defense, stating
Victory will be achieved when
* Average citizens [and the media] 'understand' (recognize) uncertainties in climate science; recognition of uncertainties becomes part of the 'conventional wisdom' �
* Industry senior leadership understands uncertainties in climate science, making them stronger ambassadors to those who shape climate policy
* Those promoting the Kyoto treaty on the basis of extant science appear out of touch with reality.[45]
In August 2006, the Wall Street Journal revealed that a YouTube video lampooning Al Gore, titled Al Gore's Penguin Army, appeared to be astroturfing by DCI Group, a Washington PR firm with ties to ExxonMobil as well as the Republican Party.[46][47]
In January 2007, the company appeared to change its position, when vice president for public affairs Kenneth Cohen said "we know enough now�or, society knows enough now�that the risk is serious and action should be taken." Cohen stated that, as of 2006, ExxonMobil had ceased funding of the Competitive Enterprise Institute and "'five or six' similar groups".[48] While the company did not publicly state which the other similar groups were, a May 2007 report by Greenpeace does list the five groups it stopped funding as well as a list of 41 other climate skeptic groups which are still receiving ExxonMobil funds.[49]
On February 13, 2007, ExxonMobil CEO Rex W. Tillerson acknowledged that the planet was warming while carbon dioxide levels were increasing, but in the same speech gave an unqualified defense of the oil industry and predicted that hydrocarbons would dominate the world�s transportation as energy demand grows by an expected 40 percent by 2030. Tillerson stated that there is no significant alternative to oil in coming decades, and that ExxonMobil would continue to make petroleum and natural gas its primary products,[50] saying: "I'm no expert on biofuels. I don't know much about farming and I don't know much about moonshine. ... There is really nothing ExxonMobil can bring to that whole biofuels issue. We don't see a direct role for ourselves with today's technology."[51]
A survey carried out by the UK's Royal Society found that in 2005 ExxonMobil distributed $2.9m to 39 groups that the society said "misrepresented the science of climate change by outright denial of the evidence".[52]
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExxonMobil#Funding_of_global_warming_skeptics |
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jkelly80

Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Location: you boys like mexico?
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Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:17 am Post subject: |
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http://www.ipcc.ch/press/popup_news2.htm
Speech by Mr Rajendra Pachauri, IPCC Chairman, at the Opening Ceremony of the UNFCCC COP 14, Pozn�n
A few snips:
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- Small islands, whether located in the tropics or higher latitudes, have characteristics which make them especially vulnerable to the effects of climate change, sea level rise and extreme events.
- In some countries of Africa, yields from rainfed agriculture could be reduced by 50% by 2020. At the local level many people are likely to suffer additional losses to their livelihoods when climate change and variability occur together with other stresses, such as conflict.
- If current warming rates are maintained, Himalayan glaciers could decay at very rapid rates. Decline in river flows as a result could affect 500 million people in South Asia and 250 millions in China.
The differential nature of climate change impacts and the existence of other stresses leave the poor of the world particularly vulnerable. The ethical aspects of this reality need to be accepted in devising the implementing mitigation actions. |
I don't see anything here that would indicate the tone of Poznan was in away a repudiation of the theory of climate change, nor does he even suggest that global cooling is a possibility.
Last edited by jkelly80 on Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Gimpokid

Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Location: Best Gimpo
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Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:18 am Post subject: |
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| Beeyee wrote: |
| Gimpokid wrote: |
| I've always wondered the motivation for lying about climate change was. |
Of course the reasons are numerous, however a global 'Carbon Tax' is very much top of the agenda. |
I've heard the theories on why the "elite" want a carbon tax and it seems like an extremely round-a-bout way to make a very little amount of money. |
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Sir John Hawkins
Joined: 07 Nov 2008 Location: Ulsan, SK
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Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:32 am Post subject: |
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| asylum seeker wrote: |
| Gimpokid wrote: |
| I've always wondered the motivation for lying about climate change was. |
For many climate change "skeptics" it's about getting paid by the big oil companies:
| Quote: |
According to The Guardian, ExxonMobil has funded, among other groups skeptical of global warming, the Competitive Enterprise Institute, George C. Marshall Institute, Heartland Institute, Congress on Racial Equality, TechCentralStation.com, and International Policy Network.[41][42] ExxonMobil's support for these organizations has drawn criticism from the Royal Society, the academy of sciences of the United Kingdom.[43] The Union of Concerned Scientists released a report in 2007 accusing ExxonMobil of spending $16 million, between 1998 and 2005, towards 43 advocacy organizations which dispute the impact of global warming.[44] The report argued that ExxonMobil used disinformation tactics similar to those used by the tobacco industry in its denials of the link between lung cancer and smoking, saying that the company used "many of the same organizations and personnel to cloud the scientific understanding of climate change and delay action on the issue."[44] These charges are consistent with a purported 1998 internal ExxonMobil strategy memo, posted by the environmental group Environmental Defense, stating
Victory will be achieved when
* Average citizens [and the media] 'understand' (recognize) uncertainties in climate science; recognition of uncertainties becomes part of the 'conventional wisdom' �
* Industry senior leadership understands uncertainties in climate science, making them stronger ambassadors to those who shape climate policy
* Those promoting the Kyoto treaty on the basis of extant science appear out of touch with reality.[45]
In August 2006, the Wall Street Journal revealed that a YouTube video lampooning Al Gore, titled Al Gore's Penguin Army, appeared to be astroturfing by DCI Group, a Washington PR firm with ties to ExxonMobil as well as the Republican Party.[46][47]
In January 2007, the company appeared to change its position, when vice president for public affairs Kenneth Cohen said "we know enough now�or, society knows enough now�that the risk is serious and action should be taken." Cohen stated that, as of 2006, ExxonMobil had ceased funding of the Competitive Enterprise Institute and "'five or six' similar groups".[48] While the company did not publicly state which the other similar groups were, a May 2007 report by Greenpeace does list the five groups it stopped funding as well as a list of 41 other climate skeptic groups which are still receiving ExxonMobil funds.[49]
On February 13, 2007, ExxonMobil CEO Rex W. Tillerson acknowledged that the planet was warming while carbon dioxide levels were increasing, but in the same speech gave an unqualified defense of the oil industry and predicted that hydrocarbons would dominate the world�s transportation as energy demand grows by an expected 40 percent by 2030. Tillerson stated that there is no significant alternative to oil in coming decades, and that ExxonMobil would continue to make petroleum and natural gas its primary products,[50] saying: "I'm no expert on biofuels. I don't know much about farming and I don't know much about moonshine. ... There is really nothing ExxonMobil can bring to that whole biofuels issue. We don't see a direct role for ourselves with today's technology."[51]
A survey carried out by the UK's Royal Society found that in 2005 ExxonMobil distributed $2.9m to 39 groups that the society said "misrepresented the science of climate change by outright denial of the evidence".[52]
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExxonMobil#Funding_of_global_warming_skeptics |
I love citing wiki as a resource as a last word in this arguement. Why not just site your local idealist while your at it? No credible University would accept a wiki citation on a paper. |
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asylum seeker
Joined: 22 Jul 2007 Location: On your computer screen.
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Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:44 am Post subject: |
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| Sir John Hawkins wrote: |
| asylum seeker wrote: |
| Gimpokid wrote: |
| I've always wondered the motivation for lying about climate change was. |
For many climate change "skeptics" it's about getting paid by the big oil companies:
| Quote: |
According to The Guardian, ExxonMobil has funded, among other groups skeptical of global warming, the Competitive Enterprise Institute, George C. Marshall Institute, Heartland Institute, Congress on Racial Equality, TechCentralStation.com, and International Policy Network.[41][42] ExxonMobil's support for these organizations has drawn criticism from the Royal Society, the academy of sciences of the United Kingdom.[43] The Union of Concerned Scientists released a report in 2007 accusing ExxonMobil of spending $16 million, between 1998 and 2005, towards 43 advocacy organizations which dispute the impact of global warming.[44] The report argued that ExxonMobil used disinformation tactics similar to those used by the tobacco industry in its denials of the link between lung cancer and smoking, saying that the company used "many of the same organizations and personnel to cloud the scientific understanding of climate change and delay action on the issue."[44] These charges are consistent with a purported 1998 internal ExxonMobil strategy memo, posted by the environmental group Environmental Defense, stating
Victory will be achieved when
* Average citizens [and the media] 'understand' (recognize) uncertainties in climate science; recognition of uncertainties becomes part of the 'conventional wisdom' �
* Industry senior leadership understands uncertainties in climate science, making them stronger ambassadors to those who shape climate policy
* Those promoting the Kyoto treaty on the basis of extant science appear out of touch with reality.[45]
In August 2006, the Wall Street Journal revealed that a YouTube video lampooning Al Gore, titled Al Gore's Penguin Army, appeared to be astroturfing by DCI Group, a Washington PR firm with ties to ExxonMobil as well as the Republican Party.[46][47]
In January 2007, the company appeared to change its position, when vice president for public affairs Kenneth Cohen said "we know enough now�or, society knows enough now�that the risk is serious and action should be taken." Cohen stated that, as of 2006, ExxonMobil had ceased funding of the Competitive Enterprise Institute and "'five or six' similar groups".[48] While the company did not publicly state which the other similar groups were, a May 2007 report by Greenpeace does list the five groups it stopped funding as well as a list of 41 other climate skeptic groups which are still receiving ExxonMobil funds.[49]
On February 13, 2007, ExxonMobil CEO Rex W. Tillerson acknowledged that the planet was warming while carbon dioxide levels were increasing, but in the same speech gave an unqualified defense of the oil industry and predicted that hydrocarbons would dominate the world�s transportation as energy demand grows by an expected 40 percent by 2030. Tillerson stated that there is no significant alternative to oil in coming decades, and that ExxonMobil would continue to make petroleum and natural gas its primary products,[50] saying: "I'm no expert on biofuels. I don't know much about farming and I don't know much about moonshine. ... There is really nothing ExxonMobil can bring to that whole biofuels issue. We don't see a direct role for ourselves with today's technology."[51]
A survey carried out by the UK's Royal Society found that in 2005 ExxonMobil distributed $2.9m to 39 groups that the society said "misrepresented the science of climate change by outright denial of the evidence".[52]
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExxonMobil#Funding_of_global_warming_skeptics |
I love citing wiki as a resource as a last word in this arguement. Why not just site your local idealist while your at it? No credible University would accept a wiki citation on a paper. |
Who said it was the last word and who said this was a university paper?
I think you need to learn to read properly. If there is anything untrue in this link then refute it with your own evidence. I love how people discredit Wiki but then are unable to find any evidence to argue against it. As if citing one article from a columnist at a right-wing newspaper is any better.  |
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